Yukon Hybrid delivers on mileage promise

I don't see why there's acrimony toward GM and/or the Hybrid Tahoe/Yukon/Escalade

They managed to get the city fuel economy of a 5,000lb monster to better than that of a 4-cylinder Toyota Camry.

People aren't going to stop buying Jumbo SUVs anytime soon. If the market was about to be abandoned, why would Toyota introduced a larger, heavier, more powerful Sequoia and Land Cruiser? So, if there's at least a more efficient fullsize SUV option, what's the harm?

So what if GM stands to make more money off of this segment? Why shouldn't they be rewarded for making a successful, more fuel efficient product?

They're following these up with the 2-mode Saturn VUE Green Line early next year, and the plug-in VUE in 2009.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Chrome @ Nov 13 2007, 04:08 AM) [snapback]538792[/snapback]</div>

Not the 4-cylinder Camry but the V6 verson. I am sure V6 Camry will be much quicker than Yukon hybrid. The comparison should not be made to start with.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Chrome @ Nov 13 2007, 04:08 AM) [snapback]538792[/snapback]</div>

I don't disagree with your point.

The issue I have is the poor implementation of the 2 Mode hybrid. On the paper, it looks good but once everything is said and done, the emission and performance (similar to 7.0L) are not up to HSD standard. Heck, even the Diesel might be better than 2 Mode if we are looking at 25% MPG improvement.

HSD set the standard and why shouldn't we compare these alternative hybrids to it?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(usbseawolf2000 @ Nov 13 2007, 09:45 AM) [snapback]538850[/snapback]</div>

You need to compare apples to apples... and to do that, you'll have to wait for the Vue 2mode hybrid... of course, you can compare the Yukon to the Lexus 600Lh or whatever...

Doesn't the 600Lh actually get worse mileage (highway) than it's non-hybrid counterpart? How's the HSD efficiency standard looking again?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Nov 13 2007, 09:48 AM) [snapback]538851[/snapback]</div>

600HL is at the opposite end of Prius.... where Prius ignored performance, 600HL took performance to the extreme (and possibly ignored MPG as well). 600HL does have lower emission (SULEV) and better city MPG and better performance.... that, you can expect from HSD.

I think 600HL is ahead of it's time due to battery technology limitation (Battery HP to ICE HP ratio is too low). Therefore, you won't see as much HSD benefits as you see in Prius but 600HL still covers all three bases (Power/Emission/Consumption).

2 Mode opens the door to Diesel supporters to say, "You can achieve that kind of MPG with diesel without that hybrid complexity". The 2 Mode chapter just opened... wait and see owner's real world MPG. It will only take one owner that gets lower than EPA to make a headline and then diesel proponents will jump all over. As the 2 Mode closed it's eye on the emission and power, how will it defend itself. I predict it will be the Honda Accord Hybrid all over again.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(usbseawolf2000 @ Nov 13 2007, 06:45 AM) [snapback]538850[/snapback]</div>

The 6-cyl camry has less than 18.3 MPG?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(usbseawolf2000 @ Nov 13 2007, 10:45 AM) [snapback]538850[/snapback]</div>

The 4-cylinder Camry is rated at 21mpg City. The 2wd Tahoe Hybrid is 21 city. So, it gets the same as the 4-cylinder (my mistake, I said it exceeded. Still impressive).

What's this 7.0L to which you refer?

And what is the HSD standard for a fullsize SUV? When the Sequoia or Land Cruiser put a HSD system attached to their 5.7L V8s, then we'll have a proper comparison.

As JohnnyCat said, we'll see what the (porky) VUE 2-mode hybrid achieves.


For now, the closest 2-mode vehicle to the Highlander/RX400h is the 2009 Mercedes Benz ML450 hybrid.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=122548

COMBINED 31mpg, and 340hp. Seems like HSD may be the weaker of the two systems.

Finally, comparing HSD to 2-mode (in trucks) also brings up the question of towing. I'm not aware of any HSD vehicle being rated to tow much of anything. I'm sure someone here has that sort of information, but I doubt any of them can tow what the Tahoe can. Towing is an immense strain on hybrids, and from what I have read, Toyota doesn't recommend it with HSD.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Chrome @ Nov 13 2007, 11:30 AM) [snapback]538909[/snapback]</div>

Yukon hybrid has 6.0L ICE with 300V battery pack. The HV pack should discharge at least 45hp bumping the overall output to 7.0L equivalent.

This is evident in all HSD vechicle. Prius 1.5L ICE with 2.0L performance. RX400h with 3.3L ICE giving 4.0L performance etc...

I was comparing the differences between the corresponding gas and the hybrid version.

Yukon -> Yukon hybrid = 25% MPG improvement with no change in emission rating nor performance.

Highlander -> Highlander hybrid = 25% MPG improvement with lower emission (ULEV vs. SULEV) and faster acceleration.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Chrome @ Nov 13 2007, 11:30 AM) [snapback]538909[/snapback]</div>

Highlander Hybrid is alowed to tow 3,500 lbs. Although the current generation of HSD has a limit to tow a huge load, it does not mean it is not possible.

For example, Lexus 600HL has the next evolution with dual stage HSD. 600HL used two stages for performance reasons but something similar can be done for towing. The first stage can be used for towing while the 2nd stage for normal driving.

 

The american car maker situation is simply sad...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(usbseawolf2000 @ Nov 13 2007, 02:35 PM) [snapback]538979[/snapback]</div>

Thanks for the tow rating.

How can you say the Yukon has no change in performance? If there's been a side by side test, please let me know.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Chrome @ Nov 13 2007, 01:56 PM) [snapback]538990[/snapback]</div>

I've been waiting to see also. From what I've seen, the reviews made no mention of emission nor extra performance. Even GM web site only state about better fuel economy.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(usbseawolf2000 @ Nov 13 2007, 02:59 PM) [snapback]538992[/snapback]</div>

Well, then putting assumptions out as fact is a sophism and that's dangerous.

Though, your suspiscions about emissions seem to be spot on.

The 5.3L Tahoe is a Bin4 ULEV, the 6.0L Hybrid Tahoe is a Bin5 LEV.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Chrome @ Nov 13 2007, 02:03 PM) [snapback]538994[/snapback]</div>

The lack of information force assumptions to be made for the discussion to go on.... I didn't state them as facts... See post #21 full of questions.

Look at that emission!! :blink: I think it is the first time in hybrid history that the hybrid version has higher emission than the "gas-only" version.

Do you have the source/link of that information?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(usbseawolf2000 @ Nov 13 2007, 02:54 PM) [snapback]539054[/snapback]</div>

No improvement has been motto for BAS. For Two-Mode to deliver a step backward is actually surprising. I too would like to know the source.

Those SULEV & PZEV emission ratings have really be a thorn in some people's backside. But as the question of why competing technologies are better, that reason why should become obvious.

We really like the fact that HSD scales down so nicely too.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(brentmeister @ Nov 13 2007, 02:52 PM) [snapback]538988[/snapback]</div>

That's overly simplistic and disingenuous.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(usbseawolf2000 @ Nov 13 2007, 04:54 PM) [snapback]539054[/snapback]</div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(john1701a @ Nov 13 2007, 05:09 PM) [snapback]539056[/snapback]</div>

Ask and I shall answer:

The source is GM itself.

Oh, and the link:

http://www.gm.com/explore/fuel_economy/alt.../pdf/2008MY.pdf

It's probably due to the much larger 6.0L V8 being used. It's not really apples to apples to compare it to an entirely different engine (i.e. the 5.3L V8).

The 6.0L in the Silverado and other GM trucks has a different engine code, so I don't know if we can even compare it to those (Though, one of the Suburban 6.0Ls is a Bin 8, so the hybrid is a clear improvement on that).

 

Hmm.

The much flaunted highway efficiency improvement didn't actually pan out.

Now we finally hear what the emission rating is and it barely cuts the mustard.

Great.

Stalling at the sight of the green flag (yes, a double entendre) isn't a good sign.

Now what?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(john1701a @ Nov 13 2007, 07:14 PM) [snapback]539110[/snapback]</div>

I do not know. I am mixed. I think it's a great compromise between size, power, towing, and city fuel efficiency, but the 2-mode's "second mode" is supposed to aid with highway economy more so than "single mode" systems such as HSD. I'm at a loss as to what's the story. 22mpg Highway for a 6.0L V8 SUV is decent, but it's just like the Hybrid Lexus LS--they forewent efficiency for potency (which isn't necessarily a bad thing, as that's an SUVs reason for existence). But I just wish it was a little better.

The 2-mode Hybrid ML-class Benz's numbers are impressive, so I'm holding out hope for the VUE Green Line 2-mode.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(john1701a @ Nov 13 2007, 06:14 PM) [snapback]539110[/snapback]</div>

How about the city improvement? Anytime they can get a 6.0L V8 to match a V6 Camry (almost half the displacement, half the size) in city economy.. well, that's a good thing.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Nov 13 2007, 08:21 PM) [snapback]539186[/snapback]</div>

How much will the Yukon Cost and cost to maintain?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Nov 13 2007, 07:21 PM) [snapback]539186[/snapback]</div>

Allow HSD to be dirty... same rating level as Two-Mode for fair comparison.

Without warming of the emission system, city efficiency improves even more.