You Can Have the Red States

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jfschultz\";p=\"105218)</div>

Heh. You almost got me with the ]you[ tag. I was surprised that I wasn't being lumped in with the whacko left.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Greyskye\";p=\"105232)</div>

Heh. You almost got me with the ]you[ tag. I was surprised that I wasn't being lumped in with the whacko left.[/b][/quote]

Now THAT'S humor!!!

 

Hybrid_Dave: jfSchultz snookered you too. He was about to snooker me until Prius04's post. Very clever.
I think the discussion on health care is more important to me. I agree with just about everything Prius04 says. I believe the HC industry is subversive in an extraordinary way. Maybe, Hybrid_Dave, you would be more convinced if you had seen the scores of people I have seen who's lives are drastically altered because they don't have health care. There is no moral defence for having a system based on privilege. I realize that health care systems of all kinds have problems. We will always be dealing with those no matter what system we have.
It may interest some that when I was doing a paper on the subject, in 1985, the Soviet Union and Cuba had a longer life expectancy than the US. That did not equate to having the same quality of health care, but it is an interesting bottom line. They did not have the technology, but it appears that they were successfully engaged in taking care of their people. BTW, the difference, as I recall,was one year and the US was at 76. The source was the US State Department.

 

Well, this brings up a sore subject.


Just exactly is the difference between a whacko and a wacko?

I always thought a whacko did whacking and a wacko wacked.

Can someone clear this up, please?

 

Hey I remember a post about me and Wacko Jacko., so don't be so quick. I just think we owe this Commander in Chief a smidgen of support in times of war. Every word strongly accusing this man (Bush) of everything, is in many areas of the world, reprinted, and taken out of context as necessary to de-rail any effort made by this country. And believe me, a President, even if you don't like him, is charged to carry out a responsibility as he is elected to do. I go back to my days, and of the things I heard, and worse after I came back to the "world". It hurt me then and hurts me now. I see no difference in the context of the criticism, lots of outside influences, and a misguided view that somehow how one sees it criticizing is going to make it all better. This will be a difference of opinion I guess that will never be resolved, and yes that part inside is painful for me and I do strike back hard when confronted with such disdain and in my "book" characteristically unpatriotic behavior, ONLY because soldiers are out there for us. I would voice criticism very carefully, and as to shortcomings and inadequacies of our boys., what do you all know about it except what you read. And when you tell the whole world what a messed up body armour or the likes it just tells our enemies how to attack us. Yes the action and war was not perfect, war never is. Don't think for one minute officers and Rumsfelt and Bush don't do something about things, it was not your newspaper articles that started it, it was the Pentagon itself that reported the problems and made steps to correct them. Some of you I suspect were in the Armed Forces, you should understand that.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Robert Taylor\";p=\"105245)</div>

I've just spent about 5 minutes trying to give an intelligent -- but humorous -- answer to this and then realized that I was going in circles.

Thus, I guess I was snookered again, every bit as much as I was by jfSchultz.

So congrats to you too!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

Trying to debate anything with /b is like trying to convince Michael Jackson that he is indeed an African American first, and a pedophile second :cussing: :mrgreen: :guns: ukeright: ukeleft:

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IALTMANN\";p=\"105247)</div>

I still disagree with some of your points, but this time I don't feel insulted.

 

Whacko = mentally challenged, wacko = resorts to wacking his opposition (violence)

 

On the subject of healthcare, I would like to hear from some of our Canadian friends on this issue. I can't be sure of it, but I seem to remember hearing somewhere, that a poll of Canadians in regard to what they like best about Canada, something like 89% claimed their healthcare system. But please correct me if I'm mistaken.

In regard to ours, certainly no complaints about quality (after all I live about an hour and a half from the Mayo Clinic), but the waits and Red Tape you have to go through with the insurance companies/HMO's. First there's the matter of choice, you have to pick a clinic from their list of Preferred Providers and chose one of them, which may or may not be the clinic you want to use. Then if you need to see a specialist for some reason, then the excitement starts. Doctor needs to write a note to the insurance "Dear HMO, please excuse Mr or Mrs Leonhardt, but they need to se a specialist..." then the insurance will review it and see if your doctor is right (everyone knows, someone with an MBA knows far more than an MD about medicine). If all goes well, they (insurance) will be gracious and give you permission to make an appointment with the specialist, but only for a limited number of visits.
Our doctor,claims he spends more time fighting with insurance companies than he does providing health care! And for the insurance company, a friend of mine works for one based here in MN (United Healthcare), he is now required to work a min of 50 hours per week (paid for 40, management person), at 60years old, finding a different job would be pointless so he sticks it out even though he hasn't gotten a raise in the last 4 years. But, the CEO of the company, now that's different, highest paid person in the state of Minnesota, 84 million compensation in 2003, 124 million in 2004.

 

Thank you P4., that is all I asked for..we can get along and see things differently

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(prius04\";p=\"105248)</div>

I've just spent about 5 minutes trying to give an intelligent -- but humorous -- answer to this and then realized that I was going in circles.

Thus, I guess I was snookered again, every bit as much as I was by jfSchultz.

So congrats to you too!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:[/b][/quote]


Muchas Gracias, Amigo!

My aim at Fred's IHOP is often to juice up the spirit of chat by introducing a facet of a topic that no one considers much, and on occasion to inject some sort of quick humor.

I sure don't let anything at Fred's IHOP give me indigestion and no one else should either. For one thing, we all have something in common, a statement car! And you do make a statement with the Prius.

I right wing friends who are elected Republican officeholders who have had a decades long love of their Sierra Club membership. And I have had left wing friends vote for GOP presidential candidates too.

One of my very best friends was a lefty, it didn't prevent a great friendship. A brain tumor took my friend 12 years ago, but I still miss Gerry. I spoke with his widow on the phone a couple of years ago, I think she still misses him too.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tleonhar\";p=\"105257)</div>

I heard of similar polls in Canada, though not quite that high, but high enough.

I'm not from Canada, but I do know that in the last election, the Liberal Party used the argument that if you vote for the opposition the opposition would try to give Canada an American type health care system.

Now if they hated their system so much, why would the Liberal Party use such a threat?

And the Liberals were re-elected, in spite of having been caught in a few corruption scandals.

 

I agree about US healthcare being ridiculous. I was pretty badly injured at age 17, required a total of 10 doctor/chiro/PT visits a week for about 4 months (yes, 2 a day, and going to high school and working full time. i had a life, really) before I could drop down to a "injury maintenance" treatment schedule of 4 doctor visits a week for another 8 months or so after that.

That only cost me $150/week plus another $50 or so a month for prescriptions.

My prescriptions were challenged every time i refilled because they were expensive high grade painkillers (and antiinflammatories but those are less objected to generally) and I regularly spent an hour and a half talking to people at the pharmacy and usually they ended up having to call my doctor to resolve it.

I got letters from my insurance company saying they would no longer cover this injury because I had reached my "treatment limit" for a single injury. (what????)

I had to work full time to pay for all this. And working so much certainly didn't help the injury heal... which cost me and the insurance company more money.

All I can say is that from my standpoint, a national healthcare plan would probably make life a whole lot easier. Although it does make the system easier for people to take advantage of (some people will be at the doctor every damn day if you let them) it would be better for society as a whole. Again, I'm just a scientist. I don't do politics and all that. But that's just my 2 cents on the healthcare thing.

 

Universal Health care would compromise the Insurance industry.

It would interfere with the megacorporations that have been buying hospitals all across America.

Plus, Universal Health care has the potential problem of the provider of the universal health care being able to strictly control drug pricing. This would interfere with the profit potential in pharmaceutical industries.

These are 3 reasons why we will never see universal health care in the USA.

And those corporate interests will continue to spend billions trying to convince "regular" Americans that they are better off without it.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(prius04\";p=\"105285)</div>

Totally agree, but that doesn't stop you or any of the rest of us from pushing hard for a more moral if flawed system.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee\";p=\"105272)</div>

Is it just me, or does $150 a week for 10 doctor's visits a week sound pretty good? That's $15 a doctors visit, which I imagine was your copay. $15 is less than you would pay for a dinner at Applebees.

I know there are plenty of outrageous health-care cost stories out there. No offense intended, but this isn't one of them.

In Canada and the UK, you probably wouldn't have gotten 10 visits per week, and you would probably have had a waiting period for any specialist treatment.

Did you know that private heath insurance is a rapidly growing industry in Canada and the UK? The reason for it is the long waiting periods for treatment. People there can either wait 4 to 6 months for treatment under the national system, or they can use their private health insurance to get treated at a private clinic the next day.

Waiting periods have long been an issue for the UK's National Health Care system, and although the UK government has been trying to fix it, from what I've read they've only managed to rearrange things, not add capacity.

Here's a fairly recent article about women in a part of the UK that have to wait 17 weeks or more for breast cancer screening tests after their doctor finds a lump. The two women specifically talked about in the article chose to spend their own money in a private clinic to get a mammogram sooner. One found she had cancer, the other found she did not.

Woman waiting for test has cancer

Would you want to wait 17 weeks for a mammogram after a lump has been discovered?

In Canada, the waiting period for a screening mammogram is between 2 weeks and 6 months, depending upon where you live. Two weeks isn't bad, but 6 months is a bit much, don't you think?

How long do you think you would have to wait in the US? You could get one in less than 24 hours if that's what you wanted.

 

First, from what I understand the monthly premium took out about 25% of my mother's monthly income...

And second, maybe you didn't notice that adds up to $650 a month. In health care costs alone, not including gas I needed to get around to all those appointments or car insurance or any other expenses such as having to buy my own food and etc.

For comparison, a nice 2-bedroom apartment in that area costs $500 a month to rent.

How many people do YOU know that can afford to throw around $650 a month? And how many of those people are under age 18? How about under age 35? 50?

Don't give me that "oh that's not a bad deal" crap.... it would financially ruin damn near anyone. And that's just from the cost view.

How about taking time off work to deal with rude pharmacists and having them call your doctor to try to "tell on you" for trying to get an honest refill? How about stressing out every time I was told by the insurance company that they would no longer allow me to be treated as the pain was nearly unbearable?

Those things are ridiculous and should not happen. This country is run enough by corporate giants and some of them are really hurting the average citizen. Health care corporations are one damn good example of that.

 

It is great for me to see a health care professional (to be) touting universal health care. When I was her age, I was very socially conscious and found myself in a several hour long conversation with a brain surgeon at Duke University about what was then called socialized medicine. The AMA was taking a very strong stand against it at the time. The doctor I was discussing this with was supportive of the AMA. I questioned him long and hard. At the end of the conversation I asked him, "What is the answer?" His response I will never forget and it has rung down the decades for me. He said, "There is no answer." It was not what he said, it was how he said it. He looked genuinely saddened and disappointed. So was I.
But I could not escape then and cannot escape now, decades later, the moral issue involved. Health care should not be for the privileged. The point is, there are problems associated with any approach and Galaxee seems to me to be so on target when she points out that we are being led about by huge money interests. And Prius04 may be correct stating why and how this will never come about. But there are still forces at work to promote universal health care. It seems to me we should be behind this and be trying to sort out how we can develop a system as free of problems as we are able to do. I have no personal interest, since I am a Christian Scientist. But to me, this is the biggest issue we face. I applaud all health care professionals and it is gratifying to witness their promoting universal health care.