WSJ Editorial critical of Toyota and the Prius

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DaveG @ Feb 22 2007, 01:02 AM) [snapback]394421[/snapback]</div>

Yeah, there is some sarcsm in my post. Guilty as charged. But read this stuff. Everytime someone says something unpleasant about toyota this forum attacks back and the attacks start turning into a feeding frenzy.

Why, just because we chose a Toyota over a chevy, should we feel the screaming need to beat up on the foundations of American industry?

Has anybody here noticed what's been happening to the American Economy? U.S. industry may indeed be making some pretty big mistakes but they're fighting for their lives. Wouldn't one expect the newspaper that represents American free enterprise to try to help in every way they can? We need some pragmatism and understanding here. And we need to remember that, as the American economy goes, so goes the rest of us.

 

I think the sad fact is that he's mostly right. Don't look at this from your perspective, but from the perspective of the rest of the country. People keep buying American cars because of economics, or blind loyalty, or both. I have neighbors that refuse to buy foreign cars (despite the fact that many are built in America, and I would bet that many American cars are built with foreign parts). At the same time, American car manufacturers seem to dangle lower financing options as well. People buy for the 'now' and not the future. They see the smaller payment they'll pay now and not the overall payment they'll pay at the pump (and at the repair shop). The vast majority of this country thinks bigger is better, and nothing will change that. Unfortunately I think the automakers will need to design more powerful hybrid and electric engines that can spit out identical performance to ICE's in order for Joe America to buy into it.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Feb 22 2007, 09:45 AM) [snapback]394503[/snapback]</div>

On the first point, the difference between the Airbus vs boeing and toyota vs GM is the US government does not have a "policy" to keep the dollar valued low against the yen or the euro or the wuan. This is the major difference in trade. If the auto industry goes the way of the electronics industry or the textile industry, the Us standard of living will never recover. To me the proof of the US policy on currency valuation and exports vs the Japanese is in the astounding deficit of trade the US has rung up with Japan over the last 30 years. 1.6 TRILLION since 1985. Just think how much better off we would ALL be if that money had circulated in our economy instead of the Japanese economy.

On the second point, I am obviously not a huge fan of labor unions either. They served their purpose earlier last century but are now mainly an anchor which US industry has to consider in far to many ways to remain competitive.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Feb 21 2007, 09:10 PM) [snapback]394361[/snapback]</div>

>>Which GM "car" did you buy which was made in Mexico?<<

My last GM “vehicle†was a Chevrolet Suburban. It was the half ton 4x4 and model was K1500. I bought the vehicle new from our local Chevy/GM dealer here in Colorado.

>> I know all GM and Fords are made in Mexico and Canada.<<

Your statement is in error here. May I ask how old you are or are you still in school?

>>Strange GM and Ford laid off more than twice as many people fromm their plants in the last 12 months as Toyota employs in total in North America. Something in the math does not add up, Toyota builds their cars and trucks in the US and GM and Ford do not. How come the "net" US auto jobs keeps dropping like a rock?<<

I’m having a hard time following your grammar, statements, questions, and logic here. Besides the wrong spelling, I think you are saying:

A. That GM and Ford laid off twice as many workers as Toyota employs in the USA in the previous 12 months.

B. I think you also state that Toyota builds its cars and trucks in the US while Ford and GM do not.

C. You then ask why the “net†US auto jobs keep dropping like a rock.

Last I do not follow your question about your own math. In reference to your questions/comments in order:

1) It shows nobody is buying cars/trucks from the big three.
2) As I stated above, your facts are in error as to where Toyota, Ford, and GM build cars
3) The reason US auto jobs are dropping like a rock is answered above in point 1, it shows nobody is buying cars or trucks from the big three.


>> I know I have been in toyota show rooms and the salespeople are obviously coached to say all that crap. Do you have to believe it hook, line and sinker?<<

I’m not sure as to what “crap†the Toyota dealers were coached on that you refer to. I never went to a showroom myself to buy my Toyota. My Chevy was falling apart as fast as I could get it to the dealer for repairs! I wanted a replacement fast. While I was mostly a Ford fan (I own 3 of them now), I talked to other employees in my company who owned the Prius. Despite my best efforts to find the negatives of the car from someone who was unhappy with their Prius, the worse comment I could find was “I love my Priusâ€. I then decided to test drive a rental Prius to see for myself with big doubts about the car. After driving one, I then proceeded to buy one over the telephone. I did not see a showroom until I brought a check for deposit for my order and to meet my sales person.

>>i 'm waiting for the model and first five of the vin of your GM mexican-made vehicle.<<

Why would you “wait†for my VIN number of my old Suburban???? Good Lord, having you been waiting since yesterday whe I posted this? First, I no longer own the vehicle. I sold the car and replaced it with a Prius. Second if I did still have it, I would not waste my time to go outside, write the number down, and then give it to you! For what possible purpose???

>>Were you stretching the truth for your post?<<

I can only speculate that you are referring to my comment about the GM/Chevy Suburban being the worse vehicle I have owned with respect to reliability. Well, you be the judge.

I bought it new from a local GM/Chevy Colorado dealer. The assembly plant for the vehicle was the General Motors Silao, Mexico SUV-Truck plant. This plant is northwest of Mexico City and has built GM SUV-trucks since 1995. For your own education, a simple YAHOO search of "GM+Silao+Mexico" will yield lots of information on this GM plant. I sold this vehicle with 83000 miles on it last year. In that time here are only a few things I still can remember:

1) It was on it third engine alternator
2) It was on its second power steering pump
3) It was on its third A/C rebuild. Kept blowing Freon lines/leaks
4) intake manifold and valve cover gaskets replaced due to coolant leak into cylinders and external oil leaks.
5) 4 of the 5 power door lock actuators were replaced
6) 1 of the 5 power door lock actuators was replaced a second time
7) internal fuel tank pump/sending unit failed and disabled vehicle – towed to dealer
8) Third set of front brake rotors and pads.
9) Third set of Michelin high mileage tires! This Chevy/GM vehicle would not hold alignment
10) Third battery in part caused by multiple failures of alternator shown in point 1
11) On the coldest winter mornings (below zero) the engine sometimes failed to start. The Chevy dealer never found cause. It would start when it warmed up.

Other than these few items that I remember off hand it was a nice vehicle. The good news is I had an extended warranty that covered much of this but not all of it.

>>Why don't you let me know what the North american content is of that Prius you are so proud of?<<

Well if you reread my post I never stated that the Prius was made in N. America. I did state that Toyota built cars here and in my opinion treat their employees better than the US auto execs do theirs. They do not seem to have the mgmt-labor problems as the big three. I wonder why?

Yes, I’m very proud of my Prius! Since I do drive 120 miles round trip to work, I especially like the 50 MPG vs the old 13 MPG!

I am sorry I no longer have my Suburban. If I had known you had such a high opinion of them, I could have made you a great deal on the used Chevy Suburban! It may have suited you well.

Best wishes.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Feb 22 2007, 11:19 AM) [snapback]394532[/snapback]</div>

What happened when the horse and buggy industry went belly up? I am sure our auto industry will survive, it might not be owned by Americans but we have a vibrant auto industry. i guess that is why we have attracted and continue to attract foreign car makers here.

and money circulates almost like water - no?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(priusenvy @ Feb 21 2007, 09:27 PM) [snapback]394296[/snapback]</div>

Wait for it: to "help keep American business competitive" any day now the WSJ will come out in favor of government-guaranteed pensions and single-payer healthcare. Hee-hee. Once again, yesterday's liberal heterodoxy is tomorrow's conservative orthodoxy.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Feb 22 2007, 01:00 PM) [snapback]394687[/snapback]</div>

I agree to an extent, but I think the current circulation is comparable to people who keep spending with credit cards. Very short-term. Eventually when enough US wealth has been transferred to Japan, china, and India, what then?