Will you still be happy with your Prius if gas gets cheap?

Happy yes. Have only owned my Prius for one month and gas has gone down about $.80 per gallon in that time, but I love the car. I figure it is like most stock I buy; I buy, the stock goes down, oh well. This wasn't about saving money on gas as much as saving resources. And besides it is a wonderful car to drive. I love it now and would at $1.00 a gallon.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Sep 7 2006, 02:04 PM) [snapback]315786[/snapback]</div>

OK, would you cheer for the price of bread skyrocketing because it would motivate agro-business to develop wood-pulp based substitutes?

I think it's pretty academic to discuss substantial, sustained drops in the price of gasoline because I doubt it will happen anytime soon. That said, it's really sad to see folks cheering for the price of a basic commodity to stay high or rise just because it will put a harder squeeze on politically incorrect (SUV, etc) drivers than on the self-righteously green. Sorry to single you out, efusco, but you've come out and said most clearly what many others have implied: that high gas prices are great because they punish people for using gas, and punish them more for using more.

That said, my answer to the topic question is yes! I say so partially because I drive enough that gas would have to get pretty cheap for the monetary saving to be irrelevant, and partly because I love what a "smart" car the Prius really is. "Smart" as in "gadgety," but also smart in that there's something more satisfying in slowing down by storing unneeded kinetic energy in a battery than dissipating it as heat.

 

It's a very stupid question, no matter the price of gas, the Prius will still be the most efficient family sized car on the road today, and still pollute less too.

Dave

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ethereal @ Mar 17 2007, 10:22 PM) [snapback]407735[/snapback]</div>

Why is it sad? There are an insane number of huge, monstrosity (5000+ lb.) SUVs driven by people around here who don't need them and can easily make do w/more sensible vehicles. I'm talking vehicles like the H2, Expeditions, Tahoes, Yukons, Suburban, Excursions and the like... Many of these are driven solo or w/only 1-2 passengers and they aren't towing anything. If gas were $6 - $8/gal like in some parts of the world, I think you'd see sales of large SUVs plummet.

Our country depends too much on foreign oil much of which comes from unstable regions of the world and/or where they don't like as very much. It's also not a renewable resource. Besides that, there's the pollution aspect (compare sensible vehicles to monstrosities at http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/sbs.htm. Large vehicles w/high centers of gravity don't stop well nor handle well so they're more likely to be unable to avoid an accident (possibly involving others) and rollover. Their high mass makes them a greater danger to others on the road in the event of collision (kinetic energy = 1/2 * mass * velocity^2).

It's almost nutty that the gas guzzler tax doesn't apply to light trucks class vehicles (includes SUVs, pickups, some vans and minivans) and only to "guzzling" passenger cars (very few of which are sold). If it were up to me, I'd like to make 5000+ lb. vehicles almost illegal for consumers/the general public to buy as personal vehicles. Either that or put on huge gas guzzler taxes or huge registration fees on them.

 

Abso-friggin-lutely, I love this car! less gas used and way lower emissions!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Soylent @ Sep 5 2006, 02:07 PM) [snapback]314634[/snapback]</div>

This question amazes me. Would you be happier to pay 4 or 5 dollars a gallon in your Prius? Or would you be happier to pay 1.50 in your Prius? I vote for 1.50 any day of the week! Regardless of which kind of car you drive, its money out of your pocket for the gas, so obviously the less it costs the gallon, the less you pay, right?

We did the analysis of when the extra money we spent on the Prius would be made up in gas savings, and for us, it 5-7 years down the line. However, the car we would have instead would be more cramped, would have a timing belt, would have smog check requirements, would have more frequent oil changes, and would require that my son's head be pressed into the ceiling when we go on family vacations.

At age 55, I feel like cars are basically boring money pits, that subject me to abuse by mechanics who misdiagnose and overcharge. So I was looking for a respectable car. This is that car for me. I love it to the point where I actually enjoy driving it.

So I say let the gas prices fall. Of course they aren't going to fall to the levels of my youth and the overall trend will be for them to go up, but day-to-day fluxuations have absolutely no impact on how much I love my Prius.

I will say one thing though. The fact that the car shuts down the ICE whenever it can is a wonderful feature. I will never go back. My next car will be an 80 MPG, unless of course gas is so expensive that I have to ride a bike or walk everywhere.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(cwerdna @ Mar 18 2007, 02:49 AM) [snapback]407760[/snapback]</div>

I'm sure glad, then, that it's not up to you and others with the Marxist notion "to each according to his needs."

It's neither your business nor the government's to decide what someone "needs" and how much is "more than he needs."

I'm willing to bet, for instance, that you posted over a connection sporting "more bandwidth than you needed" to browse a message board. (I most certainly am.) Maybe we should jack up the cost of your internet connection until you learn to "make do with more sensible bandwidth."

I accept that gasoline is expensive because demand is strong and supply is limited. I also accept that that's not likely to change any time soon. But I'm not happy about it. And I most certainly wouldn't cheer for it to remain or become even more expensive. And the notion of artificially manipulating it or other costs of ownership for "gas-guzzlers" (which are naturally plenty high already) is tantamount to coercion.

I happen to think people who build homes on the water are crazy. I most certainly never would. But that doesn't mean I hope for flooding or hurricanes to punish them for what I consider a foolish decision. Perhaps you would.

I see the term "Prius envy" tossed around here quite a bit. Maybe we need to coin a new term for the "Hooray! Three bucks a gallon and climbing!" crowd:

Prius Schadenfreude

 

I'm not so sure that the true-cost-to-society theory is actually a Marxist one. If the true cost of pollution is far higher than the cost of gas, and the cost of the other goods whose production causes polution, why would it be Marxist to increase the cost of those goods so that the pollution can be minimized?

Is it Marxist to wish to limit environmental destruction?

On the other hand, feeling like the only reason to buy a Prius is to save money on gas, seems to me to be a limited viewpoint. What about the fact that you are supporting with your wallet the development of less polluting vehicles? What about the fact that by buying the Prius you are putting pressure on the other car manufacturers, and even on Toyota, to build better cars? Is this Marxist?

Is having a conscience Marxist?

Very interesting to think of it in that way.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Soylent @ Sep 5 2006, 11:07 AM) [snapback]314634[/snapback]</div>

I'll answer first, and read the rest of the thread later. Ah... I see this is an OLD one, so I probably already posted.

The Prius is my most gas-consuming car. If gas were free, I'd still prefer to drive my Electric car, and still wouldn't consider driving one that uses MORE gas. It is comments like this that makes me more confident that cheering on higher gas prices is the right thing to do. The short-sightedness of of basing your vehicle choice on current gas prices is INSANE.

Would it seem like a good idea to smoke more if cigarettes were cheaper?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Mar 18 2007, 05:37 PM) [snapback]408002[/snapback]</div>

Well, I was going to start just to prove to my children what a bad habbit it is. I was even going to use the nicotine patches in reverse to attempt to overcome my aversion to the terrible smell and toxic effects on the lungs. But in the end yes, I did decide that I would not smoke unless cigarettes were cheaper and taxed less.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ethereal @ Mar 18 2007, 02:16 PM) [snapback]407990[/snapback]</div>

The government places a gas guzzler tax (http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/info.shtml#guzzler) on cars which have below a certain gas mileage. It's CRAZY that it doesn't apply to light trucks, which includes SUVs (http://suvs.about.com/od/fueleconomy/a/jf_gasguzzler.htm). Light trucks per http://www.epa.gov/otaq/cert/mpg/fetrends/420s06003.htm made up 50% of US vehicle sales for the 06 model year vs 28% when we were at our fuel economy peak in 1987. You can see also see that the % has been steadily climbing over the years at http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/CAFE/LightTruckFleet.htm.

The government already enforces gas mileage via CAFE, Corporate Average Fuel Economy, see http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/CAFE/overview.htm. It's crazy that vehicles w/a GVWR over of 8500 lbs. such as Ford Excursion, Ford Expedition EL and Hummer H2 are exempt from CAFE (and EPA mileage tets) because they're over that (see http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/which_tested.shtml). The GVWR exemption was originally intended for vehicles used by business such as delivery trucks. Legislation has been passed to fix this but hasn't gone into effect yet.

Those people who are driving 5000+ lb. SUVs (esp. those w/o an actual need) are putting themselves and others on the road w/lighter, smaller vehicles in needless danger. Then there are the points of dependence on foreign oil and pollution that I already covered earlier.

 

Of all the HUMMERs I've seen, I think only once have I seen more that one person in it. Yeah. Ridiculous.

The silver lining in the high gas prices is that they force us to try to free ourselves from the dependence on oil that we've clung to for so long and can't last forever. It's unfortunate that humans can't try to fix something without personal motivation [in this case, to stop paying high gas prices], but that's how it is.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jendbbay @ Mar 18 2007, 05:34 PM) [snapback]407998[/snapback]</div>

Funny you should ask. No, not necessarily, but it does amaze me how frequently those who hate private enterprise and free markets turn up in movements for environmental causes.

I see the Prius' legitimate origins as a combination of natural technological progress (someday, maybe soon, NO ICE will "idle") and a response to the market pressures of fuel prices. The environmentalist whackos who would contentedly ride a soup can propelled by a wind-up rubber band to work every day certainly love it, but the irony is that I suspect the Prius would enjoy a LARGER market share were it not the iconic vehicle of the moonbat prophets of doom who lie awake at night terrified that Al Gore will have to flee to the highest mountaintop in all of Appalachia when the polar ice caps melt sometime around lunch tomorrow.

As I mentioned in another thread, I only very reluctantly looked into buying a Prius because it enjoys such a passionate following amongst the hemp-wearing, tree-hugging, excrement-recycling, tree-spiking, SUV-immolating green-izquierdistas. Not only am I NOT buying a car (this or any other) as a political statement, but I was AMAZED at how "normal" it is given the Spartan sacrifices the Honda Insight set as precedent in order to be hyper-environmentally-friendly.

The Prius would be better served by the reputation of being a comfortable, capacious, safe, full-featured, reasonably peppy car that happens to get UNBELIEVABLE gas mileage (which it is) rather than as a $28K badge of political correctness and environmental awareness. I suspect there are far more buyers in the marketplace looking for a CAR than for a CAUSE.

 

Add my voice to chorus of yes's.

I also bought for low emissions.

Any savings of fuel use is importsnt

 

So can I borrow that for my personal title someday? Is that last word Spanish?

I actually find that sad. I'm not a fan of apathy and I'm definitely a fan of being proactive.

I do agree that the Prius has a bad air in some circles because some don't have the balls [or something] purchase something for a reason other than pretention. I think the Prius does a good job of catering to those who want pretention, however, because of all of the superfluous features it offers [which I'm not complaining about, but could do without].

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(rainydysandmondys @ Mar 18 2007, 09:19 PM) [snapback]408097[/snapback]</div>

Help yourself. Izquierdista means "leftist," but just seemed to flow better.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(rainydysandmondys @ Mar 18 2007, 09:19 PM) [snapback]408097[/snapback]</div>

I don't mean that buyers don't care, but a vehicle's primary purpose is to get a given number of people and perhaps a given volume of cargo to a destination safely and promptly. Don't get me wrong: I think that people who buy vehicles to make ANY statement are fools. I'm no more impressed with how manly an H2 driver is than with how much an Insight driver "cares."

What I mean is that I rarely hear (in general, not here) how much better the Prius does at its basic job of being a car (which it does) than about how much of a symbol or statement of a political position it is. I think that's a shame, because I think even the average American motorist is capable of getting excited about the technology underlying the Prius, but hears not about how it's a better propulsion system, but about how it's a great way to flip off Big Oil/Detroit/GWB/Seal Clubbers etc.

Maybe I'm giving Joe Sixpack too much credit, but I can't imagine that only the very technically sophisticated will appreciate the superiority of charging a battery over grinding down a brake pad when slowing down. I've only had my Prius a week and it already bothers me that the engine in my wife's Envoy idles at traffic lights. I think more people would be interested in having HSD in their next vehicle based on what it does, rather than what statement it makes.

 

If some 100 years ago battery R&D had been able to produce an electric car more practical than a gas driven one imagine how different our world would be now. The Middle East would have received about as much attention and aid as Africa, our air would be cleaner, and maybe our seasons would be more traditional.

Yeah, I'm happy with my Prius regardless of the price of gas in NJ or the price of tea in China. Buy and drive the vehicle that makes you happy. But if you come whining to me that you can't afford to run it due to fuel, insurance, or other costs, expect to hear, "Harden the f--- up." (with an Australian accent) as you should have thought about it before signing the papers.

 

i guess i be happy if gas stay below $3... ummm $3.5... well, i wanna be happy so ill say i be happy if gas stays below $4 a gallon...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ethereal @ Mar 18 2007, 07:17 PM) [snapback]408125[/snapback]</div>

On your first point, yep. As I stated earlier, I see tons of monstrosity sized SUVs w/only the driver or a passenger or two and almost NEVER full of cargo. These people can easily do this fine w/smaller, lighter, more sensible vehicles. They don't need to be hybrids. It's bad enough that we need to drive 2500-3600 lb. cars to haul our 100-300 lb. bodies around vs. 5000+ lb. behemoths.

As for Joe Sixpack, I think you ARE giving them too much credit. There's been a bunch of anti-hybrid FUD and misconceptions floating around for awhile: claims that Priuses do more environment damage than Hummers (bogus CNW "study"), some people thinking that batteries need to be changed every 3 years, etc. Besides that, some people are only looking at sticker prices and not taking into account tax credits or the amount spent on fuel (or they don't even care).

Last month, in the US, 1.2 million new vehicles were sold per http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic.../703020379/1148. 187K of those were Toyotas. 18.6K of those were Toyota/Lexus hybrids and 12K of those were Priuses. See http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2007/03/01/038764.html. Honda sold 2.2K hybrids in the same period per http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2007/03/01/038737.html

Here's GM's last sales release http://media.corporate-ir.net/media_files/...veries_0207.xls (link from http://www.gm.com/company/investor_information/sales_prod/. Last month, they sold 199K "light trucks". Here are some sales numbers from last month examples of behemoth's in my book: Escalades: 4.4K, Suburbans: 6.4K, Tahoes: 11.6K, Yukons: 9K, all Hummer models: 4K. This doesn't include behemoth guzzlers from other automakers.

 

Gas will have its ups and downs but we need to keep in mind a couple things.
yes the over all price of gas has gone up a bit, But what a lot of people have failed to realize is the inflation aspect we are dealing with, its not that gas has gone up so much as the value of the dollar has gone down.
If you can remember 6 years ago gas was in the 1.30 to 1.50 range. Likewise, Gold was in the $290 to $330 range.
now if we look at the prices now, gas is in the $2.50 to $3.00 range as well gold is in the $600 to $700 range.

If you follow other commodities you will notice the same trend. Even the price of milk has about doubled. Its all doubled. The sheer realistic fact is gas or any other alternative fuel will never be a dollar a gallon again. Its about as likely as burgers being 10 cents and gas being 25 cents a gallon. Anyones grandparents ever tell em about 5 cent movies and 10 cent shakes. we wont ever see that again...ever ever ever as we wont see cheap fuel again.

realistically by the time I am done paying off my 07 Prius gas will most likely be $5 to $7 a gallon. Gold will be $900 to $1200 like platinum is now...by the way Plat was $400 6 years ago.

We have to sit and realize as our American Empire crumbles and falls around us we are going to be just like other countries and be vulnerable to inflation and wild price swings. Espeicaly on the scale and size our society is today.

the only saving grace when it comes to limited resources is if we continue on the path we are on now, let hyper inflation take over, keep minimum wage the same, keep the poor from having cars and jobs and let em starve...think I am kidding, check out where Dick Chenny is keeping his money, do a Google search on our vice president and where he has his money invested and its not in this country...this tells me something about his confidence in the future of this country. When a man has over 25 million invested out side his country when they are in such a position of power...I am sorry they know something. gas will not get cheaper folks.