Will the Chevrolet Volt be a failure or a success?

Strange way of calculating efficiency...

 

Yes, I believe that is precisely what Gwmort is saying.

 

If Gwmort is driving only 2 miles in a certain day, then plug-in at night and then divide the charge by miles next day he will get marvellous "efficiency" why bother with mountain mode?
In fact, if he tries hard he can, with this logic, bring his Volt very close to a Perpetuum Mobile...

 

You are missing the point.
If you deplete the battery, go into mountain mode so the generator charges the batteries, you will then need less than 9.6kwh to 'refill' the batteries.

 

Sorry, you are missing the point - you drove less EV miles by those "less than 9.6kWh to refill"

 

I am not so sure MM use would skew results, since the Volt monitors petrol consumption, distance travelled, and kwh taken out of the battery.

 

One more try to explain:

You can measure electrical efficiency in a couple of ways:
1) Battery to Wheels: This leaves out the inefficiencies between the wall plug (where most people put there meters) and the batteries.
2) Wall to wheels: This leaves out the energy which comes from gasoline (if say mountain mode is used to charge the battery higher than it otherwise would be).

The upshot is that BOTH methods of measuring electrical efficiency are imperfect.
That is the point Gwmort is making (I think).

The TOTAL energy output / TOTAL energy input will still give an accurate picture of the overall efficiency, but the distinction between gasoline and electrical is lost in this fashion.

 

He means that if you deplete below 45% and then apply MM you burn additional gasoline to restore the SoC to 45%. If you measure "fill-up" efficiency the number would be inflated for EV and deflated for gasoline.

 

This is well understood.
My question to you gwmort was different:
Why, in post #1156, you are measuring the effectiveness of a charge by the EV miles driven after charging and not before charging? (if I understand you correctly)

 

I'm not measuring it at all. I was pointing out a problem with using only wall electrical measurements to analyze the electrical propulsion system. That problem being energy can get into the battery from other sources, like regen or by using MM when battery is fully depleted.

Let me try another example:
Suppose I measure one day 9.6 kwh going into the car from the wall, for sake of simplicity lets just call it 10 kwh. then I drive 40 miles fully depleting the battery. We then have a number for miles per kwh (4).

But suppose we instead started with a fully depleted battery. I run it in MM to raise the state of charge without power from the wall, then I plug it in and fully charge the battery pack for 8 kwh, and the next day I drove 40 mi depleting the battery. We then have a completely different (and invalid) measure of efficiency (5 mi/kwh).

I am not saying the car actually is more efficient or that it should be done this way. I'm pointing out a problem with that methodology, that is all. Only a total combined analysis of all power in and work out makes sense.

 

The principle point you wanted to make with the MM is fully understood (and was from the beginning).
Now please try to understand my point:
The amount of charge put-in in a certain day represents the payment (kWh) you pay for the result (EV distance) prior to the charge, and not for the result you get after the charge.
Unless you always start charging a fully depleted battery your way of calculation may lead to inaccurate conclusion (miles/kwh).
Hope I am clear.

What is your average EV ratio BTW? Do you have days with only EV? If yes, are you charging after such days?

 

My ratio is about 69% EV.

Most days I am only EV (about 50-60 miles or so). I charge every night and all day at work, unless I am away from the office but the parking garage in Wilmington at the courthouse lets me plug in there for free too.

I work about 20 miles from home. Every morning I unplug the level 2 charger in my garage (240v) and drive to work. I get to work with 18-20 miles of range available and plug into a standard exterior outlet using the 110v cord. By lunch I'm up to about 30-32 miles of EV available and put on about 10, then plug back in for the afternoon and usually reach full charge before 5:00. I then get home with about 18-20 miles of range remaining and plug back into the level 2.

Because I don't come close to exceeding the range on a normal day I drive it rather inefficiently (A/C on comfort, driving mode in sport, zipping along at 75-80 mph on the highway part of my commute, etc...).

Other days (about once a week on average) I need to go to the courthouse in an adjacent county and put on about 100-120 miles or so. Those days when I know I am going to end up burning some gas I tend to drive more conservatively to extend the EV range out as far as possible.

I would really like some sort of gauge to tell you electric consumption, but what is provided is not very good. Basically its just the range remaining, the ticks on the battery graphic meter, and a little pie chart that gives your % that driving style is effecting your efficiency.

 

3 charges a day, two of them free, 10 to 20 miles between charges on a regular day. 2 chrges on special days (one free) with 60 miles between charges. WOW gwmort the volt is tailored for you!

 

Yeah it is a perfect fit for me.

I should point out, before someone else brings it up, that if I had a PHV with the same commute and charging cycle this would happen:

Leave home with full charge, run out about 13 miles from home, get to work after burning 7 miles worth of gas (or more if ICE came on at highway speed). Fully charge before lunch, run 10 miles at lunch all on electric (no hwy miles at lunch); fully charge before going home, make it 13 miles then burn gas the other 7. SO everyday I'd be burning at least 14 miles worth of gas, and most likely running the ICE on the highway portions of my commute.

 

GM says Chevy Volt ‘virtually sold out’ – Detroit Free Press (blog) | autogazette.info

That would be the lowest, by far, of any sales month since introduction.

Assuming GM is right and demand is so high how can they have screwed up production of this vehicle so severely during its first model year? Who comes out with a new vehicle with huge demand (supposedly) and yet their ability to produce it is so abysmal? Every month we are closer to the PHV Prius...

 

I presume it's a combination of factors: it's new, they're being very careful with production due to potential cost of mistakes and they had some component supply problems due to the quake and tsunami.

They'd stoppped production of the 2011 to adjust for the 2012 which is why the sales were so low, rather than the typical 500 they'd been getting.

 

^^ that story just does not fly -- if it ever did.
Now they are in the 2012 MY run, have 9 months of user experience, and over a month retooling --- and they are talking about ramping up production to 4000 cars a month in JANUARY.

GM is so pathetic they are funny. Any other manufacturer would not be trying to spin selling 500 cars a month as a success.

 

But Nissan is producing and selling the Leaf almost 4x as fast as the Volt. They got hit hard by the quake and tsunami too.

 

Yeah, no doubt that the LEAF is wiping the floor with the Volt in production and sales so far. I have my fingers crossed that the LEAF is reliable like the Prius.

 

latest report; Nissan will continue to dominate sales but only because of a much bigger corporate commitment. the Volt sales expected to be "about 100" for the month of July because they are essentially sold out for the 2011 model year.

so, until 2012 is released, Chevy is out of the game