Will the Chevrolet Volt be a failure or a success?

I don't see the two as mutually exclusive. In my opinion the car is a game-changer vehicle, and it is currently enjoying early adopter status.

I don't know how anyone can compare it directly to a car that doesn't exist yet, I apologize if I have. I look forward to the PHV prius launch and the details of the production model from Toyota, I also look forward to other manufacturers bringing their visions for electrification to market (Ford, Tesla Model S, whatever Fisker is finally able to produce, etc...). A rising tide lifts all boats.

 

Volt is a game-player. It is contributing to the adoption of plug-in vehicles. To have been a "changer", it would had to have been alone... substantially ahead of the rest and inspiring others to take the same approach. It clearly isn't.

As for the mutually exclusive, it is... since the line in the sand was drawn for November 2010.

With this new "early adopter" mindset, when is the next milestone and what will be delivered? In other words, how is that "success" defined?
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That's a reminder of what had been expected for 2010.

The vehicle called "Volt" that later succeeds will be different too.

It's actually rather fortunate that Toyota is working to deliver a family of Prius vehicles. That paves the way for GM to retain a Volt design similar to what's currently on the road and offer one that strives to achieve those goals. Of course, that makes Prius the "game-changer" then.
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John, I understand and appreciate your point of view, I just don't agree with you.

The PHEVs are going to move millions of people to electrics that would not have gotten there in 30 years. Driving in electric is a whole new game, maybe that can't be fully appreciated by those who haven't experienced it first hand yet, but it is.

I've spent about $125 on fuel, gas and electric, in the last 4000 miles, that is a new game.

The PHEV prius will be part of it, if it were out now I'd call them both game changers, but I'm sure those of you who go PHEV, whether in prius chevy or some other brand will appreciate very quickly that the game is indeed changed.

 

GM is advertising a lot of their cars and wagons as "40mpg". That's the standard tune in the car industry right now. In fact, you might squeeze close to 40 on the highway at 55 mph on any of these ICE cars. Highway mpg is an asterisk--in the fine print.
The Volt is strictly a niche car--it will never see large scale production, and I suspect it was planned that way.

The only hybrid I see on the road these days is the Prius. And there are more and more of them. Right now, my Prius is getting 50-52 mpg--in all driving. Toyota has hit a HR with the Prius, and hasn't begun to reap the benefits.

This morning I saw one of those new Honda CRZ ? hybrid coupes. Small. Smaller than the Insight. The Insight is a much better car and only slightly smaller than my Prius next to it in the garage (wife's car). Frankly, I don't know what Honda is doing marketing a hybrid that is smaller than the Insight, gets worse mileage and is more expensive. That sounds very American. LOL.

 

Way to go Dan, following in the footsteps of Bob "hybrids won't work" Lutz!
Man, God bless those GM boys! Now, I am used to trash talking in sports, boxing for example, but, not cars from car executives, who knew!

GM is at it again, after calling the Prius a Geekmobile and he would not be caught dead in a Prius, Dan now focuses on the Lincoln brand. Speaking about Lincoln: Dan said ”They are trying like hell to resurrect Lincoln. Well, I might as well tell you, you might as well sprinkle holy water. It’s over.”

GM CEO Dan Akerson takes a shot at Ford’s Lincoln brand (w/ Poll)Posted: Jun 07, 2011


Episode 658 – Iraq-and-Pinion Steering, Lincoln Assassination, Volvo Culture Clash – Autoline Daily

 

I don't understand paying a premium for a Volt. Its mediocre at best.

GM should stick with what works RENTAL CARS and propaganda (Volt goes 1000 miles between fillups [as long as its charged for 16 hours, driven a maximum of 2 miles, then charged for another 16 hours, repeat cycle]).

Don't forget about the $7,500 rebate paid to the dealer (for GM, this is business as usual):
MercuryNews.com : Chevy Volt dealers inflate prices, take tax credits

I live in Silicon Valley and I've seen a total of 2 Volts. Bump.

 

GM talks, Ford walks. Ford: no bailout, good hybrids, good quality, none of those offensive, boastful GM style ads.

Let Dan blab, he's deluding himself. It's 1985 all over again! Dan, it's a Volt, not a nuked DeLorean!

 

Gen1 Honda Insight, Accord Hybrid and GM's BAS "hybrids" were all game players. They dropped out after some time of playing the game. Will the Volt follows?

Volt is a perfect example that shows you can't push the technology. The technology to reach the original Volt goals (including the price) were unrealistic and unobtainable.

Toyota's approach is to let the technology pull and create a plugin that is practical and affordable.

 

Yup. That delicate balance of mainstream consumer priorities/needs was simply disregarded in favor of creating a design spec'd to impress enthusiasts.
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well it certainly does that.

I hope it helps create more enthusiasts. My wife for one put up with the prius for 8 years but never cared for it. She absolutely loves the Volt and I'm fairly confident now that I'll be able to get her into a pure EV at some point.

 

Ok, this thread is already on 96 pages. Now, before we reach 100 pages, we are going to agree to come to a consensus.

This why marketing works. There are members in this forum who still believe what they were told 2 or 3 years ago about "EV with range extender", even though just before launch, GM had to come clean about parallel hybrid mode.

Again!
The Volt is a Prius plug-in with better EV range, while the Prius has a better HV mode efficiency.
The Volt is not an electric vehicle(Leaf, Tesla) since it has an internal combustion engine, a muffler and a gas tank, so the Volt is not changing anything except that they had this coming for calling it an EV!

The engine is used as a generator when it is not mechanically driving the front wheels over 70mph.
The Volt (3 1/2 years in the making)sums up to a Prius plug-in with better EV range that operates in series and parallel hybrid modes just like the Prius with its ICE, muffler and its gas tank.

 

It doesn't at all seem likely that the Hamtramck plant (where the Volt is produced) is the bottleneck after I heard this story today via the NPR news app: As GM Hires, Michigan City's Outlook Brightens : NPR.

However, it's possible there's a bottleneck/supply limit elsewhere in the supply chain.

 

we just heard they "upped" the production (again) to 16k... from 15k... for this year.
But that means they will have to 4x their monthly numbers from june in order to sell that many cars.

 

Not far off.

There is a design distinction between the Volt and the plug-in prius that I think if we were to all appreciate would help distinguish the two designs.

The Volt operates as a pure EV for a certain range, and then operates as a hybrid either in series (city) or parallel (highway). The all EV and then hybrid approach is a design choice that involves some trade offs. The overall efficiency is lowered because there are times (like over 70 mph in EV mode) when it would be more efficient to run the ICE, but the system intentionally doesn't if it is still within the EV range. This choice lowers oil consumption on shorter trips (like when the EV range won't be exceeded at all), but increases oil consumption (compared to a 50 mpg prius) for longer trips (we can argue about the math but its about 120 miles). For people with driving habits and patterns that put most of their trips at less than 120 miles a day (or between charges) the Volt will likely involve less oil consumption.

The Prius plug-in alternates between two hybrid modes, one that relies heavily on electrical propulsion with some mechanical assist (such as heavy acceleration or high speed) and another that relies heavily on mechanical propulsion with some electrical assist (HSD). This design involves some trade offs. For one it allows for a smaller, lighter, less expensive battery pack, for another it will involve more oil consumption, but with overall higher energy efficiency and less emissions.

Either way both (or perhaps all) plug-ins will use substantially less oil and be more efficient than traditional cars and are good steps forward.

Consensus on Volt success or failure? Not likely

We all seem to have different definitions of success.
John measures it as how well it lives up to its own promises, and it falls short.
Seawolf tends to measure it as is it better than a prius, a subjective measure depending on what you consider "better" (i.e. fuel economy, emissions, cost per mile, oil consumption, etc...) and while reasonable minds can differ we can all probably agree the Volt is not going to be a prius-killer (that is obviously better for most consumers in most circumstances factoring cost, use, etc...).
I measure it by how well it meets my expectations, which it exceeds in virtually every way and I am very satisfied with the product and the customer service to date.
Others tend to measure it based on results, typically sales, which by volume have been lackluster but by the remaining pent-up demand are very steady and strong.

EVs are the future, over the past decade the prius has paved the path through hybridization, plug-ins are a natural next step, but not the final one.

As batteries last longer, and cost and weigh less EV ranges will expand and expand until the ICE's are irrelevant. I don't think it is likely I'll go from a PHEV-40 to a PHEV-15, but hopefully in a few years there will be PHEVS with even longer ranges available or (crosses fingers) affordable BEVs with ranges that will be more practical for my use.

 

It all boils down to sales.

Will Volt technology become the dominant part of GM production?

If inventory remains mostly just traditional vehicles (like 47 Cruze selling for every 1 Volt in May), then success clearly hasn't been achieved. Otherwise, what's the point?
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Toyota moved about 96,000 units in May, about 6,000 of which were Prius. Does that mean the Hybrid Synergy Drive has failed to become a dominant part of Toyota production and therefore is not a success?

I'm fine with using sales as a measure of success. Millions of prii on the road = success, fine.

Prius was first available in the US in 2000 and sold less than 6,000 units, if Volt sell 9,000 the first year can we call that a success? In 2001 and 2002 less than 36,000 prii were sold in the US combined. If GM can sell 40,000 Volts in 2012 alone will it be success?

I'm not trying to be facetious. Lets go ahead and set a benchmark, and use it as a measure. I'm calling it at 40,000 Volt units sold by 12/31/12, we hit that and its a success (in my book). What is your number?

 

Nissan LEAF Sales Double In May

The Volt is sold in just a few states while the Nissan Leaf is sold in other countries as well. I think we will know when the Volt is on sale in every market. I think GM better hurry up or Nissan is going to sell more leafs, therefore uses most of the $7.500.00 dollars for its customers and then, no more tax credits.

But, correct me if I am wrong, I think Nissan still has a waiting list, as for the Volt, we do not know and now, a report stated that the factory is shutting down to prepare for the 2012 model year. I would like to think that the original waiting list was longer than 2184 cars sold as of May 31, 2011 and those who are still on the wait list will get their cars when the plant reopens?

 

FYI the $7500 is 200,000 cars per manufacturer, not industry wide, all of the first 200,000 Volts will get it as well as the first 200,000 leafs, and likely the first 200,000 ford focus EVs etc...

 

Why start here?

Tom