Will the Chevrolet Volt be a failure or a success?

I agree toyota is slow to react to the market (kind of same as other auto majors). I remember Toyota didn't like the way tax credit was structured when the details came out (it was written specifically to help GM Volt).

I don't know what Toyota is using for the batteries - are they prismatic LiMn or are they cylindrical Cobalt ones ? In anycase, their investment in Tesla and getting their battery for the Rav4EV probably means what you are saying is right.

 

Bit of memory lacking here?
Toyota slow to react? The first ever hybrid sedan (1997 JP, 2000 World), the first SUV 4WD hybrid (2003), the first luxury sedan and the first lux-mid hybrid (2006), the first compact hybrid MPV (March2011)...

Yes, almost kind of same other auto majors.:rockon:

Tesla is only a quick way of investment in US territory, IMHO.

 

The Volt is priced fairly for what it offers. With near equivalent options, a Cruze will cost nearly $25,000. I've seen quotes of 10 to 14 thousand dollars for the battery alone. Throw in the price of the M/Gs, inverter, active heating/ system, and the software to make it all work, the price tag for the Volt isn't as shocking.

It isn't the best price for a mainline production vehicle, though. Whether they intended to or not, GM isn't in the position to take losses supporting a new vehicle now. Since the the next two years of production are already sold, they luckily didn't have to. The lease seems a nice deal. I don't know squat about leases, but the simple Yahoo calculator says a car of this price should be $800+ a month.

The price will drop, or they'll do what Toyota did and make it bigger for the next generation or refreshing. That's when it will clearer if the Volt is successful. Remember, while the first Prius did well, it was still a $20,000 car competing in a segment against Corollas, Civics, Echos, and Metros. Without the revolutionary shift in design for the second gen, it would have remained a niche car with most people not knowing what it is.

 

I hope GM improves it. They don't have a good track record though.

 

I disagree with some who think this is overpriced. We have an '05 and '06 Prius. They have been great cars (100k plus on each) but now we have a Volt on order. When we bought the Prius in '05 it cost just under $30k ($27k with the tax rebate). As we looked at replacing the Prius we considered a Prius IV but comparably equipped it was running $30 - $32 (with nav or with solar package). The Volt, with the same stuff, was $36. So for a $5k premium we got a plug-in and, at least on our commute, we will be able to run probably 80% of the time on electric alone. We are hoping that the plug-in Prius becomes a good option to replace the '06. I guess I just do not understand why some hybrid and EV supporters are so against GM on this. I think it is great that a US car company is leading the pack on plug-in technology and just as the Prius made hybrids a must-have for other manufacturers, I am hoping that the Volt makes plug-ins a must have as well.

 

One thing you forgot.... Volt is a compact car while Prius is a midsize. The price difference between the two classes are about $4-5k.

 

As a recent purchaser of a GenIII Prius, I recall having seriously considered buying a GenII when they were introduced. The area dealers were selling them at full markup plus a premium. Even with the tax credit, it was not a viable financial option for me to purchase one at that time.

If the Chevrolet dealers are adding a premium to the cost of the volt, they'll chase away prospective buyers quickly. The Volt certainly has a market in commuters who can presumably drive all week without adding gasoline. In due time economy of volume will drive the price down and dealers will begin to discount the Volt, and the market will open up to this. Meanwhile, other manufacturers will be developing their own plugins.

It will be interesting to see other Plug-ins enter the market, and how they compete with the Volt technology wise, and price-wise. I don't believe the Prius Plugin is going to make a major impact long term, with it's limited plugin range.

The dynamics of the automobile marketplace are changing rapidly. If GM has not learned this, the Volt is doomed; if they have, then it may be the forerunner of a prominent place in the market.

 

We are talking about plug-ins and EVs.

Volt was announced ages back. Where is the phv ?

 

Volt missed by 1 c.ft. I don't think thats worth $4-5k.

 

2 more inches of leg room in back certainly is though: 33.94 vs 36.0

You get an extra 1/2 inch in front as well: 42.05 vs 42.5

Then there's the head room for front & back: 37.80/36.02 vs 38.6/37.6
.

 

I was actually new car shopping just 3 weeks ago and I was pretty price concious - $25k give or take a couple was ok, but even $30k was not going to work.

$41k ? Forget it. Simple as that. I'm pretty sure when you buy a Volt, you pay the full price, then money is returned in form of tax credit when doing taxes, or is that not the case? Is it an instant credit?

Nevertheless, I never looked at the Volt except to check it out at the auto show. Too new, too pricey.

 

I

I believe the ones in the test cars are prismatic, but I do not know what the batteries will be in the final production car. Panasonic bought Sanyo and its lithium technology after the current test fleet was designed. I
expect that Toyota was telling the truth and the delay has to do with changing the battery design.

Nice so a couple of inches and its $5k. It's not how big it is, it's how you use it. You guys make a great comedy team ;-) I guess we can expect the prius c to be $5k less than a prius that is similarly equipped then? And a prius is worth more than a tesla? [smileys mean sarcasm, for those challenged by my previous posts)

 

If we still must compare a non phev Prius to the Volt, remember we can get the Prius for 23k or less, if you want the bells and whistles you can pay extra for those, but that's yer choice! Volt is 41k, no base model choice!

 

PHV has been installed by customers, over existing hybrid cars.
Toyota has been selling those hybrids for 10 years in US. Competition? They were joking about!

How many EVs have been lauched since? Errmmm...any?

[Leafs are not yet delivered here in Pt due to technical problems.]

Where are the hybrids GM and other automakers promised back in 1998?

If plug-ins and EV were representative by now, I would agree with you. But they are still very few, or am I wrong?
[And judging by the tremendous Volt hype, which does not IMHO qualify for a green car, there is still some way to walk]

 

It is really the whole package. Don't forget the hatch cargo volume also. Volt is more in the size of the Insight II which starts at $18k.

 

Adding to this, if we want to split hairs, there is the official government definition that is based solely on internal volume.

Tom

 

Yes, that's the case. You pay sales tax for the full $41k. When you do the income tax, you pay $7,500 less taxes.

This means you have to owe $7,500 or more taxes. Otherwise, you won't get the full amount back. Say, if you owe only $5,000, that's all you are going to get.

 

This is called a non-refundable tax credit. Most tax credits are non-refundable. A few, such as the Earned Income Credit, are fully refundable, which means the government will write you a check for the difference.

Tom

 

$41k is the "base" model. If you load it up, it goes over $44k. Depending on your sales tax rate, it can cost $48k. Add $2k for the charger plus installation fee. Minus the $7,500 tax credit.

PHV Prius recharges from the regular 110 V plug in 3 hours so you don't need to install a high voltage charger. So it saves you $2k.

 

Yes, but for a sensible reason. Prius was fighting against misconceptions & greenwashing in a market with cheap gas which actually encouraged guzzling. So, just getting to a platform that could support aftermarket upgrading was a major accomplishment.

Volt doesn't face any of those past challenges. In fact, it has a major advantage of a large tax-credit. Prius didn't have anything but a tiny deduction until 2006.

High-Capacity battery technology wasn't realistic for high-volume production until very recently anyway. And even then, the cost is still quite high.
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