Will the Chevrolet Volt be a failure or a success?

Then you should have said as much. It takes no additional effort to be precise. The flippant, fact-presentation-as-I-feel-like-it attitude I encounter here is disappointing.

Regardless, it does not change the relative outcome as I quoted the same due-at-signing fee. In fact, I made every detail (miles, duration, due-at-signing, credit worthiness) identical for an apples/apples comparison. The standard lease numbers look much, much worse for the Prius.

Are you saying Toyota has bumped lease rates since the earthquake to take advantage of the situation? Seriously? And there's no outrage about this?

Fortunately, I'm looking for fact-based discussion, not brownie points. The facts are that you're bashing Volt lease pricing when it's a wash compared to the Prius.

Reading PruisChat suggests lease rates were raised several months before the earthquake.

 

Funny. You ignore massive down payments to justify the "350/month" rhetoric, and accuse me of imprecision ?

Go back to my post, discussing the cars.com trial run and calculated fuel costs. I pointed out that a Prius owner would pay $500-$600 a month to save $5 a month in fuel costs. You can spin until you are blue in the face, the numbers are correct.

 

The Toyota plans he referenced had the exact same $2500 down requirement, the other stuff driving up actual payments such as ttl or options would be more or less the same between the two programs for any particular lessee.

The truth is anyone who wants to can lease a Volt for about the same price as leasing a new similarly equipped Prius.

Your prius owner example appears to assume the Prius is already paid off, otherwise you need to account for the payment on the prius. If you're comparing getting your own Volt compared to Daddy giving you a prius I am pretty sure the free car will generally be less expensive.

 

Here in Europe we don't have a Volt option, Opel/Vauxhall Ampera is rated +42k euros (but not available yet). A 3Gen Prius in Portugal, is priced from 28k euros (base) to about 37k with full equipment.

 

I referred to their climate-control screen many times while arguing with the Volt enthusiasts. It clearly illustrated the impact heater use had on range, even stating a percentage reduction. Other factors, like speed, were pointed out as well. What switched?
.

 

I guess it depends on the market. Here in the UK the Chevrolet website indicates that a Volt will be sold here. I understand that this vehicle will be in addition to the Vauxhall Ampera.

Sure they're the same vehicle mechanically but they are both styled differently and I wonder if they'll price them differently too?

Chevrolet Volt ? electric vehicle with extended range

http://www.vauxhall.co.uk/vehicles/future-models-and-concepts/ampera/index.html

 

It requires $2500 to get to $350/mo with a base VOLT, exactly the number I used (and mentioned) for the comparative Prius leases ($285-$520).

Again, you are being imprecise. You are also not reading very carefully.

No, you actually said:

The $5-600 is factually incorrect but if "payment" equals "payment + due-at-signing/number of months of lease", I will update my Prius numbers, and include approximate NJ taxes/DMV (reality would be a little worse):

Prius II: $385
Prius III: $400 ($446w/NAV)
Prius IV: $462 ($523 w/NAV)
Prius V: $487 ($636w/Advanced Tech Package!)

My lease payment, modified to accommodate your unique interpretation, is $462. PIII w/NAV or base PIV, exactly where I started.

I trust it's obvious that I don't really care what it costs, but the "fuel costs" comparison is only correct for the drive cycle in the article. I'm personally (real, captured data) driving 1000miles/month on perhaps $55 in electricity and gas. A Prius (which could easily cost me more to lease if I wanted one) would use $80 in gas at 50mpg.

 

Nissan is "recommending" owners only charge to 80% for "maximum battery life". I think that completely sucks and would be very, very pissed to buy my "100 mile" (73 EPA) EV, only to be told I should only use 80% of the battery they used to make that claim.

As long as I keep my wife out of it D), I kill compared to the EPA numbers. Yesterday, even she did 33.5 miles, with "cruise at 73" in the second half of a trip but "um, a little faster" for the first half. Long term, I suspect that the actively heated/cooled, and less utilized pack of the Volt will have less user-noticed degradation as it ages but I have no data to back it up. The chemistry is different though, and the Volt can discharge at a higher rate (especially with my wife in it). No telling what it will all mean in the end.

 

If you're curious about how the Volt lease ends up cheaper its because unlike buying you get the benefit of the $7500 upfront, and you also get another $2000 capital cost reduction (still not sure if that was from GM or the lender), so basically $9500 is coming off the amount of depreciation we need to finance.

Its not great if you want to buy the car at the end, because the way they apply the $7500 results in a higher buy out price at the end, but otherwise its a pretty good deal.

 

I have another long trip tomorrow and will likely need to buy gas again. Its been a couple of weeks (and over 900 miles), have gas prices started to go down yet?

 

Nope and neither has electricity. It's warming up fast and the AC will be needed. I feel sorry for those 3rd tier folks. Imagine if they had a Volt. lol

 

Luckily some of us are paying 5 cents/Kwh to charge their EVs, so I don't mind if I get 4miles/Kwh or 3.75miles/Kwh. 1.2 cents/mile is a heck of a lot cheaper than 20 cents/mile (equivalent dino car).

 

Think about that though. I don't know if its the same everywhere, but here you practically need legislative action to change the utility rates, the process takes months with public notice and hearings and things. Now compare that to how quickly and easily gas prices fluctuate.

oh well, I guess theres always next month. What do you think will gas be more plentiful and less expensive then?

 

I wish I could cash in on GA power's 1.2c after 11pm rate. I would ev my nice person off on that.

 

Yes. Someday is coming soon! I wonder when total Prius PHEV sales will exceed total Volt sales. If Toyota makes 2000 or more a month it won't take long!

 

So is Christmas, which do you bet will get here first?

 

Crude oil biggest decline in two years; Down 12 Percent this Week for the first time to just below USD $100.00.

Huge one-day oil price drops and what triggered them - Reuters -

 

Thank you for the Europe perspective. I was wondering if Europe sees electric cars as important as we do here in USA. Here in USA it is basically national policy to favor EV's right now. I am thinking that it is not logical. I feel it is somewhat analogous to USA favoring corn-based ethanol as a popular political strategy, but questionable science and economics.

If Europe is not "pushing" or promoting EV's as THE solution like we are, that would be some proof that the USA is guilty of wishful thinking. One element of being an American is optimism that science breakthru's will make the future (eg; of EV's) bright. That's a good thing, but we can also get off into "la la land" (imaginary truth) sometimes.

Anyways I am taking your answer as a "no", Europe is not yet pushing EV due to cost issues.

 

It's doesn't bother me. My mpg is high enough that the money I spend on fuel annually is low. No EV or Volt could suit my needs so all of your antagonistic pos ts just make me laugh. My car has been paid off with my gas savings. Let me know when you get there and we'll toast to our good fortune.

 

European manufacturers haven't released many EVs yet.
Renault has been advertising for ages, but still did not buid any.
They propose an "attractive" lease for the battery, but limited to...10000km/year (like 6200miles/years)...
They talk about battery charging swap stations...another idea to be discussed about...not practical...

The only EVs available (and expensive) are Mitsubishi M-iEV [and brohers Citroën C-zero and Peugeot I-on] and Nissan Leaf. Few sold until now.

In Portugal there is a program for installing charging stations very quickly, with success.