Will the Chevrolet Volt be a failure or a success?

Today I ran across an interesting piece, said to have appeared in Forbes Magazine which reads in part:

March 16, 2011

Patrick Michaels is a senior fellow in environmental studies at the Cato Institute. He recently authored an article in Forbes Magazine pursuant to the Chevy Volt, and a case study in the nexus between big government corruption and big business..

Michaels briefly recaps that GM has touted the Volt as an all-electric mass production vehicle on the supposed basis of which its sales receive a $7,500 taxpayer subsidy. Michaels notes that "sales are anemic: 326 in December, 321 in January, and 281 in February." There seems to be a trend here.

Michaels adds that GM has announced a production run of 100,000 in the first two years and asks what appears to be a rhetorical question: "Who is going to buy all these cars?" There is an answer to that question. Jeffrey Immelt's, CEO of General Electric has announced that GE will buy 50,000 Volts over the next two years. Here is where the case study opens onto the inevitable political angle:

Recently, President Obama selected General Electric’s Jeffrey Immelt to chair his Economic Advisory Board. GE is awash in windmills waiting to be subsidized so they can provide unreliable, expensive power. It was soon thereafter that Immelt announced that GE will buy 50,000 Volts. That is half of the total announced production. Assuming the corporation qualifies for the same tax credit ….. we (you and me) will shell out $375,000,000 to GE. And this guy is the chair of Obama's Economic Advisory Board?

Michaels concludes that the Volt’s heater is exceedingly weak. He cited a Consumer Reports feature that, because of the battery drain in Connecticut’s cold weather, the Volt only averaged 25 miles of electric-only running. He notes, it will be interesting to see what the range is on a hot, traffic-jammed summer day, when the air conditioner will really tax the batteries.

 

So more gov nonsense. But this is exactly why I've said many times before I want to see sales numbers to consumers. I don't give a hoot what some fleet purchase looks like because of influences like Felt just mentioned. If PEOPLE don't buy these they'll be a failure.

 

[ Insert witty remark re: needing tax liability to qualify for the full credit and GE not paying taxes ]

 

"Senior Fellow" Michaels is not very knowledgeable about things automotive. AC is much less demanding. The reverse is true in an ICE car because the heat comes from energy in the system that is otherwise wasted.

Funny thing: I can't find a single reference to this that isn't sourced from the Forbes article. Did the author simply make it up? The only reference I can find is to GE announcing they will buy 12000 Volts back in November, before Immelt became an advisor.

 

Volt better succeed because it is getting a lot of help from the government.

I can only find reference from GE that they are buying 25,000 EVs, only 12,000 are Volt.

http://www.gereports.com/in-largest-single-commitment-ge-to-buy-25000-electric-vehicles/

 

There is a difference between high power battery and high energy battery.

High power is used for hybrid application as it needs to regen brake energy quick and also assists the ICE with burst of power. These cells have lower energy density so they weight more.

High energy cells has more energy but you need a lot of them to reach the same amount of power. These are suitable for EVs. They weight less per kWh.

Prius PHV cells are high power HV cells since they have to work (subpacks rotates) during the HV mode.

Volt's cells are closer to EV since it has 16kWh capacity (not fully used).

The reason I said I "believe" the weight includes the BMS and cooling components is because all 3 packs are air cooled with 3 fans with 42 sensors and they said "a total of just 330 lb".

 

Someday you may even be able to buy a plug in car from Toyota, someday.

 

Ironically, GM supporters are saying the same thing about their automaker. Being priced out of reach has caused them to postpone their plug-in purchase until the next generation.
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Consumers have a choice about whether to spend their money on the Volt or not, you don't have a choice to buy the plug in prius, but you can get your name on a list where they'll e-mail you at some undescribed date in the future to see if you're still interested in ordering one when they later become available, good luck with that.

Seriously though I may consider the plug in prius as my next car after the Volt lease is up in 2014,there may even be one in my local dealership by then...

 

Honda being the first hybrid in the US with a commuter 2 seater wasn't a success. Prius wasn't the first but rather the best and it was a success for being practical.

Can Volt being the first plugin (OEM) hybrid in the US with a commuter 4 seater, be a success?

 

gwmort .... we all know how much you adore your Volt. That is terrific. Why not just limit you assertions of affection on the Volt thread, and leave us Prius owners to "waller" in our mis-perseptions?

 

This is the Volt thread ^^ "Will Chevrolet Volt be a failure or success?"

I just get frustrated sometimes trying to discuss comparisons between a real car and a hypothetical one. On topic I don't think in order for the Volt to be a success it has to "beat" a prius or a plug in prius, but that seems to be how many here wish to measure it.

I think there are aspects of each vehicle that will appeal to different consumers and there is a place for all, and the more people we get into any of these cars the better for the world.

I'll call it right now, I think GM will sell 40,000 2012 Volts (non-fleet sales), and I'll call that a success.

 

I saw my first Volt today while shopping at Costco. Hubby and I were very impressed with it's looks, inside and out! I hope they do well.

 

The Volt main electric motor is 111kW and the pack can discharge at 300+amps. The Prius motor is 60kW, barely more than 1/2 as much. The Volt pack can obviously provide much more power.

I have to confess I have no idea what you're talking about. High power vs high energy? I've never heard that distinction. Are you talking about the relative C rating of the cells?

 

I've enjoyed this forum for awhile, but this ignorant comment made me throw up in my mouth a little.

 

We've shifted from overkill engines to overkill motors.

Same dance, different song... want verses need.
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Not to mention, for the Prius/Hybrid rebate, the AMT provision in the tax code took a big chunk out of the $3150 for many. So $2500 may be good number. After that fiasco, Congress stopped doing it that way for the C4Clunker rebate and I assume the $7500 EV credit is also given at the dealership to keep the IRS AMT TAX complications out of the equation. Did I say Taxes yet?

 

Yes, but at the pack level. Prius' HV battery pack can store 1.31kWh of energy but it can discharge 27kW of power. That's at 20.6C.

Volt's 16kWh pack at 1C will discharge 16kW. At 7C, it can power the 111kW traction motor.

Leaf's 24kWh pack can power it's 80kW traction motor at 3.3C. Lithium chemistry in Leaf can be tuned for higher energy density rather than high power.

Example of high power Lithium chemistry is from A123 System (used in Killacycle). They cells can discharge at 30C. A 16kWh pack can discharge 480kW! I have a cordless drill with A123 cells and it is very light yet it puts out a lot of power.

 

Overkill curb weight with minimum interior volume. Yup, same dance with different song.

As I said before, if EPA were to give out the Energy Star certification to plugin vehicles, I would bet Volt will not get it.

 

Hypothethical or not, I've driven a PHEV Prius, and even if it is not ready for market, it did achieve nice MPG and kwh/100mile, much better than Volt.
Until now, HV Prius has sold 1 million in US, which has opened the market for potential Volt buyers. I think Prius has much to do with the failure/sucess of the Volt.