Will the Chevrolet Volt be a failure or a success?

How many times must the same driving experience from different drivers by reported before it's finally accepted? Denial is what runs deep, eh?
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The difference between WANT and NEED doesn't require a test drive... especially since price, efficiency, and emissions don't require getting behind the wheel.
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Back to the original question: Volt - a success or failure?

Are we Prius owners threatened by the Volt? I see no reason to feel threatened.

Do we fear the Volt will be a success? Again, I see no reason for concern.

Do we hope the Volt fails? I hope not. I want GM to repay the taxpayers.

OTOH, would I purchase a Volt? No. Too much money, and it's "selling features" do not meet my needs or wants. Few of my vehicle outings are shorter than 18 miles eachway. Too cold in the mountain west for the poor interior climate control as well.

And, it is manufactured by GM. On page 81 of the April 2011 Consumer Reports, a feature entitled "Worst of the Worst" list 30 vehicles. 16 of the 30 listed are manufactured by GM, and 7 are Chevrolet. Even Chrysler has only 4 on the list.

 

Well good for you. My normal prius complains with that nasty engine note in normal merging on the the highway. I do have short on-ramps and stop signs or lights before entering the highway. The phv prius in electric mode over 20mph has much less oomph than a pos geo metro, if that is effortless you simply have a completely different definition than me. Just stop the exageration and spin. The engine comes on. If you are driving any distance that engine is going to come on anyway. That's it. period. The phv prius demo vehicles do not have normal acceleration under electric only mode.

wow. don't quite see the facts that make you really upset. 37mpg seems quite good for a 3800 lb car that you forget to plug in. If you use it properely it will even use a lot less gas.

really. Tell us how you really feel. 11 cubic feet is huge. 35 mpg in the city is horrendous. It must be much worse than an Avalon or hummer. Hell most people buying electric cars will never plug them in. Are those your facts?

The phv prius does not have a battery sized to do something, so it uses the engine. It picks the only source available to get performance similar to the normal prius.

On the volt it would be nice if you could tell it to use both power sources. This is operator control. I doubt the car really knows what your trade off is on electricity versus gas when it leaves the factory. The penalty of the ice and gas tank weight are intrinsic in the trade off against rage anxiety.

 

The Volt won't out Prius a Prius, but it doesn't try to; if you want low cost hypermiling efficiency Prius is King. GM has gone out of its way to differentiate we are talking about a new grid dependent auto segment here and not the traditional hybrid.

The Prius won't out Volt a Volt, and I include the PHV Prius there. If you want a taste of electric driving without the fear of getting stranded, the PHV Prius will not satisfy as well as a Volt, unless what you really wanted was an uber-prius and didn't really care about the EV experience.

On many metrics the PHV Prius is likely going to look better on paper; efficiency, emissions, likely price, but the one area it doesn't is the one the EV enthusiast is going to care about the most, range.

Earlier in the thread I got railed against for comparing the cost of the Volt to a Ford Fusion hybrid with the general consensus that you couldn't compare vehicles in different classes. The class of plug-ins that it is fair to compare directly to is very small right now, with a couple exotic supercars with 6-figure price tags, and some tiny commuters of questionable utility. In that class the Volt is well situated as more practical than the Leaf and Fortwo (and likely Mini-E although I don't really know much about that one) and much more accessible as an entry point into EVs than the exotics. While Volt occupies that territory alone it will succeed.

If only 100,000 Volts are built in the next year or two, more than a million people will experience them as owners, friends, relatives, co-workers, and start to see what is possible and increase the acceptance of these advanced technology cars and be more open to the next generation, and if they are the Volt will succeed.

 

Don't get me wrong. I love the jet-smooth, cat-quiet electric propulsion. It is one of the reason why I bought the Prius.

If there are no cost, weight, etc penalties associated with more electrical dominant hybrid, give it to me. I believe I am being a realist by wanting only the most balanced design.

 

Austingreen, if you don't have access to Prius PHV (ZipCar) near you, check out a gen2 Prius with EV button modded. You can go up to 34 MPH and it is with 21kW HV battery powering 50kW MG2. Gen3 Prius in EV mode is pretty restrictive. However, the PHV version unleashes all of it. It is very practrical to drive it around town in pure EV mode (default).

I understand "town traffic" in Texas is far different than NYC. That may be the root cause of our disagreement. Chill, you need to buy a Volt .

 

The Prius plugin battery is an addon to the regular Prius which I believe was never designed to hold a large battery in the first place, unlike the Volt which is practically built around a substantial battery.

The PHV Prius is gonna disappoint in terms of mpg, performance and handling, when it is released.

 

Too much of this kind of thing will scare consumers away, though. Already the concept of hybrid powertrain is clearly above the heads of many (some study recently here touted that fact). In a world in which 80% of BMW 1 series owners don't know their car is RWD educating people about plugging in their car is hard enough as it is!

 

Different approaches of what is supposed to be a plug-in. Volt had to deal with it own requirements. Try fitting 5 people around that substantial battery. And speak about how much that substancial battery costs.

Can I reply to this amazing sentence without being pointed as a spin user?

Come on, many tests have been made to PHV Prius, can you prove what you have just written?

[Did I look like a "spin" user?]

 

Perhaps what he meant to say was "I really hope that the PHV Prius is gonna disappoint in terms of mpg, performance and handling, when it is released."

 

Who is the market for Volt?

I asked that question continuously during the hype and still do now... because it clearly isn't the same as Prius.

Do they really think middle-market wants electric-only drive under absolutely every possible condition? Purchase priorities certainly don't show that. Look at the quantity of Camry & Corolla sold each month. They offer a nice balance, not heavy emphasis on any particular aspect. They're practical, affordable, reliable...
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dont we already know what is PHV test Prius doing? And it is doing well .

I bet than by 2013, Toyota will have more sold PHV's than GM, despite GM's head start.

 

Thank you! That is what I've been trying to say.

The cars will appeal to different purchasers. There is a significant market that really wants an all electric car, and they now have some choices (Leaf, Smart, Tesla, Fisker, etc...). I believe a big part of the market that wants to go electric can't because of either cost restrictions (Tesla and Fisker) or practicality restrictions (range anxiety).

The market for the Volt is EV buyers who can't afford an exotic EV, and can't accept all the limitations of the cheaper pure EV's, and so are willing to accept the tradeoffs inherent in bringing an electric generator with you everywhere you go in your EV, all for less than half the price of an exotic.

It takes a fringe market (EV enthusiasts) and stretches it towards the middle by drastically lowering costs and increasing flexibility.

While it may not yet be a car for the "average" buyer, its mere existence and pulling at the statistical outliers will help to move the "average" to where it needs to go. Also, I firmly believe as more "average" Americans get to experience all electric driving in an anxiety free package its popularity and the number of enthusiasts will spread quickly.

 

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No denial. I just don't agree, and most reports are very different than yours and usb. The car is not designed to accelerate even as well as a geo metro in ev mode. I hope that toyota gets this improved.

I did drive the phv prius at the green living expo at the end of March. They let me take it out on a 45mph road instead of just the loop (special permission because of the people I was with). At least to this driver it did not have much power in ev mode.

I started just pointing out that the prius phv is really blended mode, that it will not accelerate normally in ev mode to higher speeds. You seemed to jump on it. My problem is all the negative posts by you and john that IMHO are misleading. I got back on this thread to hear thoughts of an actual volt owner, and he seems to be drowned out. My driving and yours seem quite different. I've driven a little in Manhattan and NJ, never in Queens. I don't think I would have the patience to actually drive in Manhattan, I sometimes get frustrated even in a cab.

I want something much better than the volt, but if my car had been totaled today instead of October 2009, I would have leased a volt instead of bought a gen III prius. Also remember the phv is not for sale and if you are not in a CARB state it will not be on sale for at least 2 years. That promise should not stop anyone from leasing a volt.

 

I am. My wife commutes 26 miles/work day and most of our errands are within 15 miles, a good chunk of them within 5.
Once a week I have a 75 mile trip, so a 60 mile range EV (winter driving) won't cut it. But the 40 mile plus trips are infrequent so the inefficient Volt still comes out ahead.
We are a 2 car family with a garage, so the Volt would be our long range vehicle AND short range EV while our other car will, ideally be a 200+ mile range vehicle.

 

Looks like Volt will get a better opportunity this Summer - Toyota expects shortage by Summer, including Prius. But, can Chev. get enough parts, and batteries out of LG Chem to increase sales?

I've seen some of the most ridiculous sales and production estimates for the Volt in the newspaper - US production to increase to 20,000 Volts this year, 50,000 next year, etc...

"..On October 18, 2010 GM again revised production numbers upwards to between 10,000 and 15,000 Volts in 2011, and will likely build to the maximum capacity of 60,000 in 2012..On January 12, 2011 GM announced that because of the higher than expected initial demand it will be further increasing Volt production to 25,000 in 2011."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Volt#Production_and_sales

They've sold 1,210 Volts in first 3 months this year

The 'game' is on right now and here out. Prius sold: 15,600 in US year of 2001.

 

Not everyone needs 5 seats all the time, it's the full sized SUV argument you are making here which is not PC.
http://priuschat.com/forums/other-c...fuel-efficiency-but-don-t-want-pay-extra.html

It's a prediction of the performance of a yet to be released Prius PHV.
What's yours?

What PHV Prius ? Toyota's final (released to consumers) production vehicle does not exist.
That's vaporware to me as far as I am concerned and to any reasonable person.

 

I'm sure you don't know the definition of vaporware.

 

You quoted it - Americans don't want to pay more for super green cars.

Vaporware - that's a cool term you picked up from others around here. You honestly think Toyota will not deliver the PHV Prius next year, by this time?

Here's what I think - the PHV Prius will have a starting price fairly close to $30,000. It will seat 5 just like the regular Prius. It will get 50 MPG's on regular gas without being plugged. People won't give a rat's nice person whether they get their jollies driving on pure EV for xx miles or not. Most greenies aren't looking for 8.5sec 0 to 60. They will prefer the less expensive, more efficient car.

And Prius will be a family of cars by next year. I suggest you not waste your time here, but send letters to GM, and call their customer support line to give ideas of how they can compete against the new wave of green cars coming in the next year and a half.

In one year or less -

Honda has Fit EV, all new Civic hybrid coming
Ford has an EV on the way
... and more priced $10k less than Volt.

 

Seconded.