Will the Chevrolet Volt be a failure or a success?

Listening to a GM director, he claimed the PHV Prius will invoke the ICE if you use a certain amount of throttle whereas the Volt will not use ICE even if you floor it from a stop. This is the reason GM like to call Volt an EREV, not a PHEV.

I thought someone claimed they hammered PHV Prius throttle going up a hill and it went up all electric. Guess I'd have to try one out to know.

 

If I understand you correctly, you have a big problem with the GM Marketing machine. What were you expecting that they didn't deliver? Honestly, I didn't pay much attention until all the drama when GM revealed the "direct" link to the wheels (I couldn't understand why they wouldn't do it so I was a little confused by the uproar) and I started reading a little about the details of the car. As a nerd, everything going on in the background is fascinating to me.

I expected the car to drive 25-50 miles as a pure EV under normal conditions, exceed 100mph under abnormal conditions, and not run the ICE (excepting some exceptional conditions I have not encountered) until the battery hits its low point. That's what it does, and it does it far better that I expected. I drove 227 miles last week on 81kWh and 0.1 gallons of gas.

 

Yeah, right, 1 in 20 are Pri's in Bay Area, no way. Maybe in a certain parking lot in Palo Alto.

 

I don't know how to upload pictures but there is no pipe coming out the tail. My understanding is the exhaust for the generator vents directly down underneath the car somewhere, but I haven't looked under to see it (I'm a big guy and the clearance is low). I have laid down behind it looking for the tailpipe and couldn't find it.

I know what you meant, the exhaust is coming out somewhere, but there really is no tailpipe, I'm a bit perplexed how the DMV would even get the sensor in the right place for the test.

 

There is a tailpipe, driver's side rear of car, but it's well hidden under the bumper. Have to get down on ground to see it.

 

Actually I was referring to the 13-15 miles all electric range in terms of not keeping it up long, not the rumors it will never be "all electric" if driven hard.

 

An affordable car for the masses was promised.

We ended up getting an expensive niche instead.

To be the game-changer they boasted about delivering, it must actually cause change... in other words, replace sales of traditional vehicles.

Noticed how sales of Cruze are going up dramatically? That's not the outcome hoped for. Waiting for the next generation of Volt wasn't the plan.
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I hear ya.

I saw a video from a guy timing 0 to 60 runs in PHV Prius. When accelerating hard, the ICE would definitely come on with plenty range left. He was trying to see the best 0 to 60 he could do without ICE coming on.

 

One of my points the other night in a Toastmasters speech about Prius and adv. cars was some mfr. sometime needs to step up and take the Prius head on. Hint, hint GM.

Some chance 'Prius' will be consistent top 10 seller in a year now that's it's going to be a family. Zero to top 10 in 11 years?

 

If you think 0-60 in 25 seconds is hammering it hard, then you need to hammer down the accelerator to get the ice to come on. We don't know what the shipping phv prius will do, and AFAIK no one does. Some people do accelerate very slowly and don't drive over 40 mph, and then you might be able to keep the engine off. In the volt you just need to be driving with a charged battery when its not brutally cold (I'm from a warm place and don't think the engine would ever come on here without a discharged battery).

 

You are claiming 150 miles with zero emission. Where are you getting your electricity from?

If you charge your Volt from the grid, 56.4% of it was generated from Fossil (dinosaur) fuel and 40.3% from Nuclear in Delaware.

150 EV miles would consume 55.3 kWh (using EPA figures). That amount of electricity would emit 62.3 lbs of CO2. 50 MPG Prius would 58.2 lbs of CO2. If you run your Volt purely on gasoline (freedom drive), that's 78.7 lbs of CO2.

Cordless Prius is cleaner, less expensive to own and operate, a class bigger and you won't need to plug it in. Sorry to break it to you but you downgraded by getting the Volt instead of Gen3 Prius.

Source 1 - Used to determine Delaware electricity source and it's emission.
Source 2 - 19.4 lbs of CO2 per gallon of gas.

 

I do believe ICE will kick in on PHEV under full throttle--in fact, I'm nearly positive. But then, the Volt kicks in ICE at certain high speed speeds, so neither is perfect in what they want to be.

This is why I have said the Volt needs to drop a good $8k+ off its price to even be a contender from any real financial perspective.

 

SUV may get me extra space but it'll cost more to operate due to much lower MPG. Fusion or Prius gives the extra space yet cost less to operate due to higher MPG compared to the Volt.

 

Infrastructure will make a huge difference in the plug in cars over time. When I first got home with the Volt I charged on the 110v. The very first night I didn't get a full charge because I got home around 1:00 and had to leave for work around 7:30, I burned more gas that first day than I would have liked to.

The next couple of days I charged all night long, and ran out of juice about 10-15 miles from home, so was burning fuel everyday and really self conscious about trying to stretch the AER. Now I charge up at work and have the 240v at home and it makes a world of difference in my enjoyment.

I drive 20 miles to work and plug-in, run out at lunch for 10 miles or so and plug back in, run home all electric (and in sport mode) and plug into the 240v, 30min to 1 hr later its ready for a ride into town for dinner, then home to plug in again.

Once there are 240v outlets widely available in shopping and dining areas, BEV's are going to become more and more popular.

 

The test is performed with the same procedure in Volt's charge sustain mode. Cordless hybrid and non-hybrids would also start with a cold catalytic converter.

The purpose of the test was not to determine average emission output. That will greatly depend on the charging behavior and the trip distance of the owner. The test determines the tailpipe emission when one of the powertrain (gas engine) is operating.

 

Thanks for the picture of the exhaust, I'll have to go have another look for it.

I'm a bit confused if we were discussing tailpipe emissions why my not having any for the past few days of regular driving isn't relevant. I get grid power has emissions issues, but its really apples and oranges, there is excess power in the grid off peak hours that goes to waste, even if I didn't charge there would be emissions from the power plants for the power not getting used. And there are always means to help liberate oneself from the grid once you have non-oil dependent transportation (home solar and wind for example). I read of a couple Volt owners in So Cal that use their own solar to meet all their own home electric and now vehicle transportation needs with zero emissions.

 

That's not true. The car will go 101mph on battery power. The ICE does not start until the batter is depleted.

 

Absolutely. In either scenario (electric or gas), your Volt will emit more CO2 than a cordless Prius. It doesn't have to be that way.

Prius PHV uses the electricity only when it makes sense to do so (low speed up to 62 mph and moderate acceleration). It results in around 200 Wh/mile instead of Volt's 360 Wh/mile.

This means there will be less CO2 emission from the electricity and it maintains the same 50 MPG. Smaller PHV battery also means it will be affordable to the mass. That multiplication factor will result in further gasoline gallons saved.

It may not sound as sexy as "pure electric miles". It is a really thought out balanced design with many criterias taken into account.

Here is the emission comparison between PHV Prius and the Volt.

Carbon Monoxide:


Exhaust Emission:


Evaporative Emission:


Source 1 - Volt CARB emission
Source 2 - Prius PHV CARB emission

 

Not true below 26 deg F. The ICE will start even with a full battery.

 

Excess power *capacity*, yes. The myth of unused power going to an EV instead of into the air ranks right up there with water for your fuel tank.