Why would anyone Own a Prius

Just what kind of shape should Lexus have given the CT? Should they have made it a more upscale version of Prius and called it a Lexus?

Do we need yet another run-of-the mill compact 4 door trunked sedan in this world? Don't we have more than enough 4 door sedans running around?

Should they have it an IS 250 hybrid lookalike?

 

I don't think they have said the combind HP figures yet. What if it is more than Prius? I would think CT is a little heavier than Prius. Seems it is crammed with suspension parts (multi-link rear), stabilizer bars, etc...

Yet, no matter what is said, some will buy it over Prius, not because it has L badge, but because how it looks and you sit very low in the car. Much more like sports car seating.

 

I am not sure what you're talking about...you just wrote stuff that has nothing to do with what i wrote. The fact remains that the CT does NOT look unique. It is much smaller than Prius, yet can't go any faster. It costs, on average, at least $5k more. It gets worst fuel economy. Sure, it has the Lexus stuff...but will it be enough to win over its class? Audi A3 TDI gets 42 mpg on the highway...30 in city. And it goes from 0-60 in 8.5 seconds according to C&D. That is a good 1.5 seconds faster than Prius/CT. An Acura TSX SportWagon will be around that neighborhood in acceleration.

 

Ok, let's try this again. You said anyone truly interested in hybrid will be 'taken back' by a car that averages 42 MPG.

I said, Insight is 40/43, Civic hybrid 40/43, CR-Z 35/39 .... Honda sold quite a few Civic hybrids.

but you meant only people who are interested in full hybrids will be disappointed in CT?

Look, I know very well the CT will not sell in big numbers. It will not sell anywhere near the quantity of Prius. Prius II can be had for $23k anywhere. Can't touch CT for less than $30k.

You seem to be kinda bent on slamming the CT. I bet the CT will be a much different driving experience on a favorite backroad than Prius.

 

It is a lot smaller and slightly heavier...with the same powertrain. It is also less sleek (Cd 0.28 vs. 0.25). It will be not nearly as practical as the Prius.

And yeah, Lexus has said that the total HP is 134 hp...see: Lexus CT 200h Future Hybrid Vehicle

Again, i am not arguing with you on how good of a handler it is (although, that remains to be seen), nor how sporty low you sit. My point is that, for the young professional looking for a sports car, they will be turned off by the lack of oomph! A 10 second car for $35-40k is unacceptable in this class!

My view...a young professional belongs in one of these classes:
1. Long commute or city commute (aka someone like me);
2. Want to save the environment; or
3. Sports car oriented

Well, the first two type of young professionals will likely get the Prius over CT due to the better MPGs and more practicality (baby seats, car pool, etc.).

The 3rd type will be turned off by the slow CT...and much rather get Audi for the sports heritage and more oomph. Remember, these young professionals are not that concern about mpgs, reliability, nor saving a few bucks. They are concerned more for image, sports car driving (main criteria of which is acceleration), etc....and this is why the BMW 3-series has been so dominant. Do you think that this type will want a 10 second car so that they can boast that they get 42 mpg?? The Audi TDI owner will just laugh in his face!

Now, if CT200h was aimed more for old farts, then yeah, i can see the point.

As for CT is for Prius folks who want more luxury...sure, there will be a few...but is it enough?? HS owners are some of those folks...and look at the sales figure for the HS...pathetic.

 

Sure...but again, how many folks will buy one over the competition?? For most Prius shoppers, mpgs is high on the list...and a 8 mpg loss PLUS major loss of practicality are big deals for these folks. For a entry-luxury buyer, the CT's slow-nice person acceleration is a major flaw IMO over the hybrid and non-hybrid competition. Think Lincoln MKZ or whatever it is called. Basically, like the HS, the CT is in limbo...not good for the true hybrid customers and not good enough for the sports car crowd. THAT is my point.

 

The CT does look unique - it looks like a CT. Lexus wanted to make a 4 door hatchback and not the Kammback shape. Front end looks very different than Mazda3.

I wouldn't say it is much smaller than Prius, but yes it is smaller. It's Cd is .29 and it probably weighs more than Prius, so yeah, 0 to 60 is the same. Most people prefering a hybrid aren't looking to beat their bud to the next stop light.

It costs an average $5k more, but when you see it, it should be obvious why it costs average $5k more.

worse fuel economy - higher Cd's, more weight, and larger wheels/tires tend to do that.

You keep quoting the A3 TDI - 42/30 ........ ok, that's likely 36 MPG combined. So, take 36 combined at 8.5 0 to 60, or 42 combined 9.8 0 to 60. Some won't buy an Audi regardless

Acura TSX Sportwagen will average 25 MPG tops.

To my knowledge, the CT will be the first 4 seat sport hybrid. Some will hit it.

 

Yes, that'd go much better with Lexus owners, at least myself, even in the same shape as the CT. It should at least not look like a Toyota.

 

I think your point that young professionals will not want the expensive, but slow acceleration is valid. Hopefully the older, empty nester crowd will give it a look.

This CT shape of car is somewhat rare in the car market though. Mazda3 hatchbacks, Matrix's, Audi A3's, Impreza hatchs / STI hatch's, etc... not common

The hatch's always cost more than the sedan equivalent - Corolla $15.5k, Matrix - $19k, they buy the Corolla. Lot of people want their junk in a trunk, so it doesn't fly into their head in an accident.

Often, if buyer wants a hatch, they want height too, so they get a CUV, a Rav4. If they can make good cost on efficient Rav4, that would sell through the moon.

In the US, the CT200h may be a niche car. It may get pounced in EU too. We'll see in a year.

 

I don't know that I would say the Lexus hybrids haven't been successful. The RX hybrid has been very successful, the GS and LS hybrids are expensive and are designed to be low volume models. From a resale perspective I don't think we have that much data to be able to say they've done well or not...they just came out 3 years ago.

We'll just have to wait and see which one of us is right, like I said.

All I know is at my Lexus forum...theres a buzz about the CT.

 

Yes, CT has the basic shape of a Matrix, but to me it looks more mature outside. Inside, no comparison.

I sat in the CT at the SF auto show and wow, it's hot and upscale. CT interior quality is much higher than Matrix. I bet it will be much quieter on the road too.

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On a side note, you can quote all the statistics about fuel economy, price, interior room, but when it comes right down to it, the deciding factor will be how it make a driver feel when they are driving the car whether they want a CT or Prius V.

 

what Lexus CT forum? CT200h.com?

 

Lexus should have gone with the 2.4L engine found in HS250h. MPG would have gone down a bit, but at least the performance would have been slightly better. I test drove a HS250h and it felt pretty good and helped mask some of the obvious hybrid driving characteristics. A Prius is one of the slowest new cars on the road. Add bigger/heavier wheels, more vehicle weight, worse aerodynamics. The CT200h will most likely be even slower than a Prius. So you have a slower car, worse fuel economy, wrapped in a Lexus package, with better customer service. Some people will buy it, maybe 1 CT200h for every 100 Prius sold. In the US that would mean around 1,000 cars per year. Lexus already made the choice to make it, so it will be interesting to see who buys it and how many. Choice is good.

 

But, remember, the MAIN competiton, according to Lexus, is NOT the Prius, Volt, or Leaf. The main competition are the germans. And in this regard, CT has a lot to cover, including driving feel and pure performance. And in this regard, i feel that the CT is bringing a spoon to a knife fight IMO. From what i heard, the CT platform is the next gen Corolla or something like that. If true, then this is not exactly high end platform stuff....

The CT is front-wheel drive. It has 134 hp, same Prius powertrain. It is front-engine. What is the front-rear balance? It comes with electric steering, which traditionally has very little feel. Well, i guess the one good news is that with the Prius powertrain, you do not have to worry about torque steer!!

The Germans have been in this business for a long time and has deep tradition. You think that driver feel will be better in the CT vs. the Germans? I sure hope so...because the CT being sportier than the Prius is not really anything to brag about nor really an accomplishment at all! For all its compromises, i sure hope that it is sportier than the Prius!

 

Yeah, or just the 2.5L I4 in the new Scion will be good. Sure, it is a bigger engine, but that would make it into a VW GTI fighter, Acura TSX fighter, BMW 128, etc.. Maybe put in AWD too.

 

Remember, back in the day, there was a lot of buzz for the Pontiac Aztec when it was at the auto shows...well, the rest of the history you guys know. You go on Clublexus HS forum, and you can kinda see some buzz...but you know the sales figures already.

Bottom line, how many young professionals will put actual hard-earned cash down on the CT is what counts, not how many internet hits it gets.

If the CT was priced cheaper...around $25-30k range, then i think that it is a solid hit. At $30-40k, it is in some hefty competition...and the customers in this range are not all MPG crazy either.

 

Agree 100%. For me, if i did not have my Prius, then i would seriously look at the Acura TSX SportWagon. Sure it is not hybrid-great in fuel economy, but it is good for its class (21/30mpg). It is quite nice inside (esp. the 2011 changes) along with being very practical! At $34k loaded, it comes with amazing stuff, including best front seats i have been in, class-leading ELS stereo (a biggie for me), hard-drive NAVI and music storage, backup camera, leather with memory setting, peppy powertrain (not great, but decent), and amazing Acura service. Yes, Acura service...let me tell you, it is great to get 30k mile service for under $50! Damn, that even beats my Toyota service costs! Lexus will probably charge over $150 for the same service!

 

Prius is one of, but not the slowest cars on the road - The 11+ sec. 0 to 60 cars are Chevy Aveo's, Equinox 2.4L, Civic Hybrid, Hyundai Accent, Kia Rio, Smart for Two (14.6!),

 

Hey, TSX Swagon is Acura/Honda, course it will be great Not one complaint about my coupe, imagine that after all the peeing about the 2009 Prius.

Nice dimensions of the TSX wagon - 189" long, 72.4" wide, very good, sweet spot. Basically Camry, (short) Accord wagon that doesn't look like Manatee Venza. Far as wagons go, doesn't get much better than the TSX. After all these years, good so see these coming back.

But, will people just let go of the big tires and raised height of SUV's and CUV's??

I showed my 25 y/o niece a photo of the Sportwagon and she sneered saying, you should bow your head as it goes by, it looks like a hearse. that's what she said.

 

Yeah, not exactly elite company there....

My wife hates the idea of the TSX wagon....