I owned a 2003.5 BMW M3 SMG...and yes, i have tracked it. These are not exactly glowing reviews: >TOP GEAR CT200H REVIEW : "identity crisis" " annoyingly at steady speeds" " It doesn't feel sporty " >EVO CT200H REVIEW : "Rather dull, unfortunately" , "a bit of a mess overall" , "the responses are just a bit wooden" >AUTOCAR CT200H REVIEW : " It's hard to recommend" , "not even a pale substitute of BMW 1"
And if you think that slalom speed only means at the edge driving, then i have nothing more to say...dude, read up on it! Skidpad g's are more relevant to "at the edge" driving dynamics...slalom is more important in the real world IMO.
I think Thee biggest reason we likely won't see big sales on the CT is most in the US just aren't too crazy about cars in the basic format of the CT200h / Mazda3 hatch / Matrix / Audi A3 / Impreza I see them around once in a while, but not a heck of a lot. I think most prefer the look of a 4 door sedan with a trunk. If they want a hatch, they want an SUV / CUV. In Europe, hatches are much more common what I've heard.
CR clocks IS 250 @ 7.7 sec 0 to 60. I think it is one of the best looking small sedans out there. No way I could own one - I see mostly the top of windshield. My Accord works good for me though!! Should get like 29 MPG on this tank.
the lexus 400 had a much improved ride over the camry,,,,,probably same as this new lexus over the prius.....what do you want? ride or mileage.... 44mpg is good, but 51 is better....can your butt handle a little more buzz for the savings? right now, we own the best car for the money in the world....we hope for improvements, but don't see this lexus as any great big deal....... next on the horizon is phev....hope prius can offer a conversion so we can get 40-50 miles on EV
WADR SW ... I heard what the guy at edmunds had to say about CT and ouch, it was not very good - slow from a stop, kinda fun but couldn't bond with it, etc.. I imagine he gets to drive quite a few cars for comparison.
I'm not even saying the car is going to be anything...I'm just suggesting that one should have an open mind until one experiences something for themselves. Don't need to read up on anything, I've taken advanced drivers training and driven several different cars on tracks. All I'm saying is plenty of cars are zippy and fun to drive without putting up incredible slalom numbers. As for the skidpad...the CT matched the A3's performance as per the edmunds review. The edmunds review also mentioned that the overzealous VSC system hampered slalom and skidpad performance. In normal driving, even spirited driving one wouldn't push the car to the point where the VSC would intervene. Like I said...I'm not even saying the car will turn out to be any certain way...I haven't driven it. I'm simply suggesting that people should wait to experience something for themselves before passing such a resolute opinion off on others. Plenty of bad reviews of Lexus vehicles from a drivers standpoint, they never get any respect from the auto press. They're still the top selling luxury cars in the country... The Lexus LS400 is a completely different car from the Camry. Totally different platform, powertrain configuration and size class. I see what you are saying, but the comparison doesn't work.
SW03ES, i would bet that the people shopping for the CT cares about these numbers...and do plenty of research and comparisons on-line and whatnot. You're not talking about $60k+ old fart car here where you can rely on prestige and luxury nameplate...the CT is aimed at young professionals who are into sports car in the $30-40k range. I would bet that fuel economy is even less important than the performance numbers! I believe that this is why Lexus is OK with the CT getting "only" 42 mpg because customers in this price range care more about performance than saving a few pennies at the gas station. Thus, whether one explores the limit or not, the bottom line is that the CT is neither there nor here when it comes to being sporty...and the piss-poor acceleration will be a big factor. Frankly, i would never imagine anything slower than our Prius can be considered sporty! I understand about good feel and handling, such as a Miata. But a Miata can still get to 60 mph under 8 seconds. I think that the point you guys are missing is that this sporty CT200h is not even in the ballpark when it comes to acceleration...and can't beat the competitors (Germans, Acura, etc.) in handling (per numbers). Sure the feel may be better than a Prius, but according to European reviews noted above, it does not look good from that perspective either.
If I had to wager who knows more about the demographic that will buy this car, I'll pick Lexus and not PC member 'Thai.' Personally, I like the idea of small cars with high quality interiors and modest performance. I have no idea how common that preference is though, and so far I have not paid to own it.
There are a few popular threads about the IS's speed at Club Lexus. It's quite funny seeing 250 and 350 owners argue. IS250 - How slow is it? - Club Lexus Forums man you guys're right, IS250 is soooo slow - Club Lexus Forums That said, I'd buy the 350.
Let's get back to the original question...... Why own anyone own a Prius? Because they don't want to be seen in a Lexus. People that have money often don't want to display it. It's the wannabes and the young lawyers and dentists who are more eager to make people think they have things that the banks actually owns.
Actually, it was a phase...i went from the BMW to a 2004 Mercedes G-wagen (Off-roading Video of My G - Toyota 4Runner Forum). When i got married and had two kids, i gave up off-roading (for now)...and my job became more demanding (longer distance driving)...so, i went for the Prius last year...purely for fuel economy reasons (and LEDs & ATP helped solidify that decision due to lots of highway driving). I agree. When i had my G-wagen, i was very paranoid about my family's safety. It attracted way too much attention (good and bad) everywhere it went. This is why i am now shying away from most luxury brand. Acura is OK because no one really respect Acura. I am very happy with being anonymous. It is good to blend in.
The CT is a sub-30k (technically) Lexus that gets superb mileage. I sure couldn't see myself buying it but I think it will sell decently as far as Lexuses go. It's clear that a lot of luxury buyers couldn't care less about performance, case in point the entry level 3-series that has always done well despite frequently being smaller and slower than non-luxury brands. But they lack that BMW logo. It's what people want. Badge whores who can just about get approved on payments so that they can brag on facebook about their new Lexus will purchase this kind of car. If that is actually its target demographic it's not going to hit it. If on the other hand its demographic is 24 year old ladies who just got their first professional job and so badly want to look the part, then it will hit it. Me, neither. A vehicle that I can easily out-drag at the lights with my minivan is not a sporty car. I don't care how you try and dress up that.
For the "feel" folks out there, this is what Edmunds said about the CT: "The increased effort level of the electric-assist steering is noticeable, and the feel is syrupy. Turns out, a 3,240-pound hybrid with 59 percent of its weight resting on the front tires doesn't provide for an overly joyous experience. It's more fun than, say, walking, but there's nothing about it that resembles any sport-oriented car you can think of. The combination of meager power, near-zero engine braking, weak brakes and a lack of steering feel means this car responds far from adroitly when you throw it into a corner. It doesn't do anything horribly wrong, but the lack of feedback from the powertrain, the chassis and the controls means you're just not 100 percent sure what the car is doing. Just don't expect to get emotionally attached." Yeah, i have been completely wrong about this car! Damn, i should have listen to the Lexus owner for 13 years and moderator of some lexus forum. Hint: it does not take a rocket scientist to see the flaw in this car for what it is.
i was looking at these but the mazda3 just jumps out. I think i will wait till they hybrid the es or the avalon. Imho.
More quotes from Top Gear: "It doesn't feel sporty, and it isn't as plush and quiet as a Lexus should be. ...it still takes more than 10 seconds to get to 62mph, and sounds wheezy and reluctant as it goes. A sporty chassis, then? Well, it certainly has a stiff ride and a fair bit of grip, but the steering feels gluey and, anyway, the hybrid drive doesn't really goad you into pressing on. The ride is punishingly busy and disturbed, and the big tyres roar annoyingly at steady speeds." Hmmmm....
