Why Toyota is not selling electric cars

Twisted logic. There's no need for continuous oil drilling to produce an ICE car, it's very similar to one-time-per-vehicle manufacturing of the battery pack. Continuous oil drilling is need to support ICE operation thru its lifecycle, just like for the most part it's needed to support EV operation thru the very same lifecycle, until we completely (or mostly) switch to 'green' technologies.

I'm all for EV and green, but let's not get carried away from common sense.

 

I think @Trollbait was talking about this in his post up-thread.

 

Yes, that’s exactly what I said: If you’re concerned about environmental effects of battery-manufacture, the first thing to remember is that the total amount of material involved, and therefore the level of the environmental danger, is tiny compared to the fuel we put into a car. Even in the case of a Tesla-sized battery, it’s a comparatively small concern.

Most studies agree that the environmental impact of manufacturing an EV is, for now, higher than for manufacturing a gasoline car, but even then, it’s just a one-time impact.

Sure, EVs are not for everyone. Still, prices are going down pretty quickly and there’s a lot of wall plugs out there.

Here, Toyota said, essentially, “we’re not making BEVs because there aren’t enough batteries ‘out there.’” That’s a meaningless argument; if you want to make BEVs, and you can’t get enough batteries, the solution is to make more batteries.

What Toyota should say is, “we don’t want to get into the BEV market.” Fine, that’s their prerogative. As you say, it’s a limited market. However, they should state the real reason.

That being said, I bet they’ve got a few prototypes at various stages of development.

 

I interpreted it as "not as many good enough at the right price." I think they'll be all over electric, but they aren't going to rush anything until they can offer it in parity to their ICE cars. Look at how they've done this with the Hybrid Corolla, Camry, Avalon & others.

They're convinced that it's going to be a while.

Here's another angle for you, entirely speculative.

Right now, a Toyota BEV has to compete against Toyota hybrids and Toyota cars and all the other cars. It's going to be compared to other Toyotas and of course to the Teslas. Even with the practice they've had, how can they make an EV look good up against their own hyper-developed, ultra-refined hybrid and gas cars? It's a trap of range, price and performance that can only be won by deep subsidy, and that's not actually winning. They know they need to keep making Toyotas- high production volume, low defect rate, moderately featured and priced, for a profit.

In a few years, we'll have some Chinese EVs on the roads. If Toyota joins the fray after they've arrived, they only need to beat those cars to look good. It'll be a more natural comparison, and it will go much further in their favor.

Apart from that, I really wouldn't be surprised if they've got an acquisition plan. With new EV brands launching, some will inevitably stumble. The opportunities for buying a developed & debugged battery supply chain are likely to increase.

 

Toyota should stop selling cars altogether and just make motorcycles.
They could make twice as many...needing only 2 wheels instead of 4.

Mike

 

The enemy of good enough is perfect.

If you wait until the perfect solution is found you'll always be using the oldest worst technology.

IOW, BEVs with the current batteries are better, so let's move to this. If a better battery technology comes along, then great we can switch to it. In any case it will takes decades to install enough chargers in homes, work places and along the interstates. These don't care what kind of battery you have.
And sure, better, faster chargers are going to come along. But even the current ~6kw L2 chargers at most work places and in homes that have them are "good enough" for 99% of people to charge with and get to and from work.

Mike

 

Can you imagine the chaos that would have occurred ~100 years ago if one day horses were outlawed and every had to buy an automobile all at once?

Mike

 

Toyota already has BEVs coming to market in China, and they've entered a partnership to make battery factories there. The reported statement is mostly spin to cover for them not making the investment sooner, and upper management simply not being interested in making BEVs.

Mostly because a shortage of car traction batteries may occur with more getting into the segment. VW's BEV platform was designed to be flexible in the Li-ion format(cylinderical, prizmatic, or pouch) it can use in order to shift suppliers as needed.

 

Toyota also wants to avoid the @Osborne computer “ syndrome. If Toyota says they have a BEV coming that can suppress current sales as people wait for the “better “ BEV.

 

Is that "BEV" or "Beta Ware"?

Bob Wilson

 

That may indeed be true, but it may not.

EVs *are* selling at a premium now. That premium varies from modest to massive. I for one would pay a few thousand more for a Toyota-quality BEV, and I don’t think I’m the only one...

Also, Toyota pure-gasoline cars aren’t exactly cheap nowadays. And for comparison, pretty-well-equipped Nissan LEAF can be had for $37K. While there certainly are cheaper pure-gasoline cars, that’s not a whole lot more than ... a Camry, say.

 

camry's can still be had for under 20k. leaf may come close after discounts and credits. but for the average driver, leaf doesn't come close in flexibility, and probably tco and reliability.

one's personal philosophy of why we should switch to bevs does not equate to 'toyota should make bevs'.

 

This thread will not be PC complete till john1701 enters and tries to pivot the negative Toyota conversation towards GM.

 

no your audience

 

You do edit sometimes

 

You sure? I thought it worked pretty well with "No" as a verb.

 

Sorry... Duh... Don’t know why I compared to “Camry”; meant “Prius.” Although, I think high-end Camrys are on that order ($34Kish), and I think the base LEAF is around $35K, as is the base Tesla Model 3 (well, now or very soon).

A leaf is a pretty versatile car, and it has a lot of great features like ProPilot and the E-pedal. It’s also a hatchback instead of a sedan like the Camry (and Tesla Model 3).

Again though, it’s not just me, but quite a lot of people are paying a premium for BEV, and the cost per KWh is dropping rapidly (

).

 

You've been greenwashed if you actually believe that. The current offerings from other big automakers... GM, Ford, Chrysler, VW... are not in meaningful numbers and all have a heavy dependency on tax-credits. The pusher is Nissan, with a respectable mention to Hyundai/Kia Also, getting clean hybrids (SULEV & PZEV) rated immediately is far more impact to the environment. So, that claim is just rhetoric.

What's especially bad is how GM continues to be given a free pass, even though they never spread Volt technology to their other vehicles. Notice how they introduced both Trax & Blazer in their line-up, neither of which is even a hybrid? Equinox & Cruze both got diesel models recently too. Why are those actions not being called out?

Why does Toyota constantly get negative press, despite their push for the new 39 MPG hybrid RAV4 rollout? That is an undeniable move to phaseout traditional choices, which paves a simple path to choosing a plug later. That first step away from a guzzler is the hardest.

 

Those lessons learned are a very, very important part of the discussion, something that shouldn't be ignored. GM's propaganda has a disastrous history, over and over again confirming the problems "over promise, under deliver" can have on the entire industry. Their rhetoric causes apprehension & confusion, not to mention wasted opportunity.

Look at this thread. Notice how many followed the pivot to hydrogen & fuel-cell discussion? That's effective greenwashing. Without even realizing how, they got off topic. That's what GM enthusiasts spread to take the attention off GM mistakes. They don't want success & failure stories of the past to influence the Toyota narrative.

Why don't you want to talk about the squandering of tax-credits Volt became? Intentions of that money was to help each automaker along with their effort to electrify their own fleet, to offer something with a plug to compel their own loyal customers to change. Instead, those sales were wasted on conquest. Delivering something that only appealed to an outside audience never made any sense.

Feel free to invite me to point out the mistakes GM made anytime. There's lots of detail to share about how those mistakes came about. Preventing others from doing the same is a worthwhile effort.