Why the "Out of Control" Prius Driver Is Full of It

There _is_ an adjustable switch attached near the brake pedal arm. You can physically see this switch by following the brake arm up under the instrument panel (dashboard?). I knew it was there because almost every car make has a similar adjustable switch. It functions when a certain degree of travel is applied to the brake pedal. Its purpose is to turn on the brake lights, disable cruise control, and enable [not Brake Assist but Brake Override] Brake Override (BO?) which drops the ICE and Traction Motor to idle. The switch probably has no direct affect with the [not Power Brakes but Brake Assist] Brake Assist (BA) that at least a portion is independent and live all the time--even when the car is Powered 'off'. I think [now] that you are confusing Brake Assist with Brake Override. Brake Assist applies different presures assisting in emergency application of the brakes. Brake Override's only purpose is to drop out engine and traction motor's speed to idle. Disengaging Cruise Control has the same effect as BO too. If BO fails you need to react to the situation as this might indicate there is a stuck accelerator.

WARNING: I have posted many times confusing terminology incorrectly referring to Brake Override as Brake Assist and Brake Assist as Power Brakes. And at least inferring once that the Prius generations all had Brake Override--they did not--only most recent Toyotas.

 

ECU is Electronic Control Unit. There are many ECUs on a Prius, and they all spend a lot of time talking to each other.

Tom

 

There are a lot of folks attacking one of the Prius drivers.

It is not IMO attacking someone to say that they don't believe they put their foot on the accelerator pedal but they did. To say that someone is wrong does not mean that you are saying they are liars. At the same time, I think the "copy cat" syndrome has been well-established long before this issue. The more instances, from my observations over the past half century, the smaller portion that are real.

There are sooo many reasons to want the car to be at fault from fear of spouses or the law to people wanting to avoid responsibility for their accident. And, of course, there are many reasons for Toyota to avoid responsibility if it is theirs'. Since I'm not a mind reader, I'm not going to deal with very many specific instances.

But this guy, I'm really sure about. He was angry with his Toyota dealer, he is a gambler, he has won the lottery, has gone bankrupt, he has a 180 mile per day commute, he is a "real estate executive"- whatever that is, and he likes to be on TV. He claims that the accelerator pedal moved downward away from his foot and then stuck. He claims that the brake did not override the accelerator as it is designed to do, he claims a lot more power than my 08 Prius has, and he claims that after he turned off the engine and stopped the car, that it then accelerated again (I guess the engine restarted?) making him hit the CHP. He called 911 "immediately" after the accelerator pedal went to the floor, but paid no attention to the dispatcher. He said that putting the car into neutral didn't work. He said he was afraid that his car would flip if he stopped too fast (that's a new one to me).

 

Oops, thanks for that correction. Makes more sense as Electronic then Engine. Hmmm... So Brake Assist might have its own ECU then? But is it still independent or does it talk to other ECUs that might override applying Assist to the brakes? Thanks.

 

You've repeated this twice and it's not accurate. You may be confusing it BA with the newer brake override function that is just being added to new and existing vehicles. The new brake override functionality does what you indicated.



Brake Assist as qbee noted applies the full force of the Power Assisted Brakes to the friction brakes depending on the manner in which you hit the brake pedal.

1. if you apply the brakes normally then normal braking occurs;
2. if you apply the brakes normally then jam the pedal suddenly to the floor then normal braking occurs;
3. if you suddenly hit the brake pedal hard, with more force than usual, only then does the Brake Assist put the full force of the braking in effect quickly.

Wiki article on the subject:
[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brake_Assist[/ame]

 

I do hope if true when this is all said and done that these "copy-cat" people are fully discredited publicaly and legally held responsible for all the financial damage caused--monetary and jail time. Now it is time to wait and see how it all pays out.

 

BTW: for you all out there who drive at most at what?, 60-70-80mph??, well let me tell you, we drive in EU typically at 140km/h, 90mph - that is NORMAL and in Germany we can drive and do drive at 150-180km/h, 95-110mph, without too much fuss. And let me tell you, the Prius *DOES* brake all right - if I were to slam on the brakes at such speeds, I would come to a stop even with the engine pushing the car (not much more torque left anyways at those speeds....). Often you drive on the Autobahn at 150km/h+ and you have to slow down relatively quickly to 80km/h. Yes, the brakes are quite powerful. I honestly don't see how this guy managed to burn them down, or not be able to stop it. He wasn't even going max speed! which also means that the accelerator was not really stuck in full position, if at all stuck, and the car was not going bezerk at full speed. Full speed of the Gen 2 is about 180km/h - 110mph. If he drove at full acceleration for 20mins, he would have reached that speed in any case - which he didn't.
Again - as I wrote on another thread - this smells *so* much of BS - this guy did something wrong on the car, and now wants to keep the driver's license and blame Toyota for his wrong behaviour while driving a car.
The whole thing doesn't hold - *AT ALL*.

 

How can you "flip" a car by putting it in Neutral?!?!?! what are you guys talking about??? cars don't flip by themselves and even more so when you put them in neutral...!

 

An easy mistake. Braking on the Prius is rather complicated, with regenerative braking, friction braking, ABS, skid control, and VSC. In a simplified manner, when you step on the brake pedal you ask the car to slow down. A conversation occurs between the braking ECU and the ECUs responsible for controlling regenerative braking. The regenerative braking ECU says "I can do this much braking..." and the brake control ECU adds in friction braking to do the rest.

If the skid control ECU detects a loss of traction, it sends a message to stop regenerative braking and switch to ABS.

There is a lot of talking going on over the CAN bus.

Tom

 

I have no idea how you would do it. But it does seem as plausible an idea that you would call 911 then wait for the police in order to avoid a ticket (an idea multiple people proposed). My point was that people find reasons for all sorts of improbable events. Just because it is completely wrong, does not mean that they do not believe it.

Other possible explanations for the driver not shifting to neutral - 1) The car had unintended accelleration and brakes that did not work properely and he waited for a witness. He did not trust toyota to actually examine his problem. 2) He was off his meds and heard voices saying neutral will flip the car, 3) He was thinking of suicide so since his car was trying to kill him he decided to let it for insurance money, 4) Its a hoax to force toyota to buy his car back, 5 ... you can make up your own they are all through the thread.

Now what is the reason for all those calling any investigation a witch hunt?

 

Yes, I have, and I've done it twice now. Brake Override it is. I honestly thought my 2007 Prius dropped to idle when I pressed the brake pedal too and it did but not because it had Brake Override. I use Cruise Control a lot and I almost always disengage out of CC with the brake pedal. I'll try to fix my most recent posts on this. Thank you for bringing this to my attention. Rats, mislead by the dealer service rep again. My 2007 did have some simple version of Brake Override. Okay.

 

Your 2007 does have brake override built into it, but it's not as simple as cutting the power whenever the brake is pressed. The Toyota engineers have attempted to allow normal combined use of the brake and accelerator, since some people two-foot for hill starts and others use heel-toe techniques.

Accommodating these exceptions has made the override more complex and hard to understand. It may even have contributed to some of the reported problems.

Tom

 

He said he was "standing on the brake" for 20 minutes with the car going at 90 mph.
I don't believe a bit of it because the brake will burnt up within five minutes.
I think he is applying just enough brake force to keep the brake making smoke along the way.
I don't know the brake override will work if a small force applied to the brake with the throttle fully on. May be some of the PCer can try this out and verify.

 

I don't think this can be safely tried out any further on late model Priuses because the Brake Override will kill the ICE and MG2 rpm to idle. Maybe earlier models? From what I gather now my old 2007 Prius had some simple version of Brake Override. It's nice to be using some of the terminology right for a change.

Ah, I need to go find the glossary!

 

There should be a poll on if this is fraud or not. I'm calling this a fraud. Its so obvious.

 

time for a intermission

and for the record i think the guy in California and the woman in Westchester are idiots looking for their 15 minutes of fame and cash

 

Good point!

Though useful in getting you from A to B, vehicles are complicated unintentional dangerous weapons. Considering the worldwide deaths that involve vehicles, you could say that the motor vehicle is the most effective "complex unintentional weapon" ever created. You don't operate something this dangerous without proper training. The training that new teenage drivers receive is probably inadequate for the risk, but America has embraced it as adequate. With any other complex weapon on the planet, the training involved is incredible extensive. I say "complicated" only to rule out guns, which are dangerous weapons but not very complicated and don't really require that much training to use safely.

Examples of other "complex" dangerous weapons: armed military platforms. How much training do those sailors receive to drive their ships and submarines safely, to operate their weapon systems safely? Incredible amounts of training, which never ends. And a great portion of that training is devoted to emergency response.

My point is that the training for any dangerous system should be commensurate with the complexity and the potential lethality. The training the people receive to operate automobiles in emergency situations is woefully inadequate. A certain percentage of "gifted" humans may do well without any training, but I venture that the vast majority would fail miserably and fatally. And that training needs to be on a recurring basis in order to maintain a certain level of competency.

 

I'd love it but I don't see how it will be possible to implement. There would be some cost and I dare say more then what it costs to renew your driver's license. Outside of new driver testing that probably doesn't vary much from state to state, Oregon's driver's license renewal is every 8 years, requires _no_ written exam (which shocked me to learn), and a simple eye exam. I don't see how this can possibly make for better drivers. I drive down two lane streets both ways every day in my city and always see drivers making left and right turns directly into the far lanes rather then the near lanes. This ruins the right-of-way laws because the other cars wait not being certain they dare make their turn safely. And of course there is always the poor pedestrian trying to get across the street at a corner.

Anyway, good luck to us. I would see a remarkable drop in vehicle related fatalities if this was taken seriously by all. I just had to think of recent DUI repeat offenders in the news--you want to throw away the key but instead they are back out on the street and the tax payer pays dearly for it all the time. This is where I start sounding very pessimitic about the future of the United States and world for that matter--so I'll stop.

 

Last night, I would have bet someone $100 cash that by 10PM EST tonight that Sike's story would fall apart, and a retraction announced. Something's going on behind closed doors... One would think the authorities and Toyota would want this solved ASAP.
Word is that he's a Real Estate agent, and apparently owned a "racy" web site that went bankrupt. So he may have the Heene / O.J. gift of gab.