Why get PIP, no cost savings.

Yes, those points were an oversimplification.

As already mentioned there a major benefit to short-trips, something commonly overlooked.

Focus on the resulting MPG instead, which was also mentioned. For me, my current tank is just a little over 300 miles with an average of 114 MPG.

Lastly, how do you put a cost on reduced emissions? My electricity comes from natural-gas and solar, which is clearly better than coal. Using even less gas (oil) is a benefit too... for both emissions & dependency. What's the value of that?

Let's not forget about your contribution to a better future as well. Each generation of plug-in will get better. The children will appreciation that.

 

I bought mine because I have been wanting an EV for years, I even put down a deposit on a Leaf on 4/20/2010, placed the order late last year, and the Leaf actually came in... I rejected it on 1/30/2012, because, it's highway range, in cold, wet weather, can be as low as 50 miles, average temps you might get 70 highway miles. While thats great, it's not practical as a 1 car solution, and I would have had to keep my Prius, and then be faced with multiple insurance premiums, depreciation, etc. I looked at the Chevy Volt, it's inferior compared to a Prius, only 4 passengers, trunk is crappy (not a hatchback), and the big thing for me, I could not get into the drivers seat, easily.... Rejected.

Pure EVs are not a good fit, for a single person right now, unless you don't go anywhere. The PiP is a great compromise between a pure EV and a regular gas car, you get some EV range, but you are not limited by the battery capacity to go anywhere you need to.

My commute is 14.9 mies each way, in stop and go traffic. Monday and Tuesday, on the way in, the entire commute was in EV. When I get to work, I can plug in at the parking garage... So most of my commute home is also in EV. Thursday I had to visit a client, 45 miles each way, try that in a Leaf on a 65mph highway.. Anyway , my overall EV/HV mix is now at %37 EV, %63 HV since I picked up the PiP 1 week ago today, and that's 375 miles, using just 4 gallons of gas (according to the display, haven't filled the car yet, still on the dealers fillup, I expect I won't need gas until next Saturday). Electricity used so far 34KW, I sometimes charge the PiP 3 times a day, but it's typically only twice. You will save money on gas with the PiP, it even gives you a number: 3.3 gallons saved so far.

And as other posters have said, for local short drives, a regular Prius gets horrible mileage, because it never warms up, not an issue for the PiP

 

that's funny, my commute is 14.8, although, i can cut it to 14.5 with a more direct route.

 

It really is a very odd question coming from a Prius owner.
I can't count the number of times I have heard the exact same question posed for the Prius vs non-hybrid car.

As others have said, no car pays you back. You loose much of the value as soon as you drive it off the lot. Financially it will never 'pay you back'.

Economically it is a very important decision.

Good economic reasons to buy a PHEV or EV:

Strengthen the economy of the US by reducing our dependancy on foreign oil.
This will also help limit the economic impact/severity of oil price spikes.

Aside from that, driving under solely electric power is SO superior to driving a gas burner, I will never be buying another one again.

And, not to get off topic, but Mitch, the Volt is a hatchback

 

Also, difference is not $6000 when figuring in federal tax credit of $2500. Also, many states have additional incentives. For example $1500 California rebate. So in CA, cost differential is $2000.

 

I can charge the Prius from solar cells. I can power the house with the Prius.

I really like electricity.

Richard

 

To the OP: no new car offers a true cost savings. Get a bicycle.
Oh.. that's not convient.. get a moped.. not comfortable enough?
Get an $800 used junker and drive that. Not reliable enough?
Get an old used prius with 150K miles on it (can be bought for < 5k), and when that dies get another.


You need to consider the difference in value vs cost. We trade money for the things we value. I value leather seats, quite powerful ride,technology less pollution, using almost no oil/gas, and using renewable energy. If you consider these important, maybe an PHEV or BEV is for you, if not there are lots of choices that will cost less money.

 

Its deck is 6" below the opening, its not level the way the Prius deck is, it's more trunk than usable hatchback. No matter, I can't fit in it, so didn't buy it, and never will at this point. Chevrolet had their chance to convert me back, but blew it big time.

 

You are missing alot! Aside from all the great posts previous to this and looking at it strictly from your myopic financial viewpoint, the extra costs is $2000.00 devided by $2.00 a day = 2.73 years Payback. Where else can you get that?:cheer2:

 

You can say this about any car above a stripped base model Toyota, Hyundai, Kia or any other brand. "Wants and Needs" rarely come into play when buying a car. The common exceptions might be for a large family or towing/work needs for a truck. The rest of us can get from point A to B with a $14,999 special that gets 30+ mpg and anything above that would be wasting money in theory.

Our PIP came in Tuesday but I cancelled because my need for the HOV sticker went away from the time I ordered the car last year and now and that was the only Need that the car would have fulfilled for us.

My mileage would be better than our 2011 but there was no justification for trading and losing the moonroof without a neeed for the HOV sticker.

 

I see your point, we have a regular Prius and its one
of the best cars, so far, that I have ever owned and
I have been a licensed driver since 1966.

But, here is the other side, if gas does go to say 7 or 8 bucks
per gallon, it may be pencil out economically. Also you can
make electricity from solar panels etc. on your own property
to supplement you Prius charging.

Also, when the government is aware of hundreds of thousands
of electric vehicles on the public roadway system the government
will tax you for your electricity use or vehicle use. With
gas or diesel vehicles its called road tax and you pay it federally
and state when you purchase gas or diesel in the U.S.

 

To use less petroleum. If "Green Freedom" gasoline made from non-fossil carbon and non-fossil energy sources were available, even at $8 per gallon, I would happily use it in my 2004 Prius instead of buying a PIP.

 

Just like shopping for food, every purchase you make sends a message. If you are willing to pay 5% more for a comparable organically grown item over a genetically engineered item, for example, and enough other people do so, the market changes.

For my part, a PHEV purchase sends messages to the auto manufacturing world, the power generating world, and transportation policy makers. If I wanted to, I could easily have purchased any other car. But why?

If I'm OK with Monsanto dictating what farmers plant, then I'll continue to buy their genetically engineered crops. I'm not, and I don't. Same with fossil fuel dependence and those who dictate our future via foreign policies to protect a non-renewable resource.

 

The deciding factor for me was the HOV sticker. If you have to drive around for work in LA/OC traffic as much as I do, the HOV sticker is a lifesaver. Time is money.

Having 60+ average MPG certainly doesn't hurt either.

Ideally, the EV battery would have better range (somewhere like 25-35 miles), but hey... You can't have it all.

 

From here on into the rest of this century, gasoline will be less and less affordable. It's non-renewable. There is no more of it once we burn it. The emerging industrial giant in China will use its new found wealth to buy fuel to keep its factories running. That will drive up the price of fossil fuel around the world for everyone else.

So the price of gasoline will never go down again. It's "leveled off" for the moment down here in the far southwest corner at $4.14/gal for regular unleaded.

Regular unleaded was up to as much as $4.40/gal earlier this year, and I fully expect to see it around $4.50 again by the end of the summer. $5/gal by this time next year, at least for premium grade gas, will not be surprising.

Depending on the politics, there may either be some brief relief or a vicious jab to the wallet sometime in the vicinity of November 5…

 

You woke up. That's all that counts. People are realizing this one at a time. Get whatever model of Prius you can afford that works for you.

 

I like this quote, because it captures the essence of Electricity being the universal fuel. It can come from Natural Gas, solar, wind, hydro, nuclear. I see the PiP as a transitional vehicle technology to better distribute our energy resources broadly.
I have seen technical talks about oil field depletion and gasoline will run out in the next 50+ years.

1) I still bought my PiP for the CA HOV sticker.
2) I can charge for free at work.
3) Less trips to fill the car at gas station. (I looked at CNG car that gets HOV white sticker, but 200miles per tank and going out of my way to find filling station lowers lifestyle quality) It is a time aspect.

Chris

 

Really? Can you point me to the posts stating that? I didn't think anything significant w/the engine had been changed at all on the PiP vs. Gen 3.

The bigger problem is that China and India both have over 1 billion people each and a growing middle class, more able to afford cars, thus competing w/us for fuel. China's auto market is already larger than the US in annual sales.

BBC NEWS - China's car market matures after ultra-fast growth says "only about 3% of the Chinese population owns a car currently, compared with 80% in the United States."

Yeah, it's either that or a crisis in the form of a fuel shortage like the two we had in the 70s (http://priuschat.com/forums/freds-house-pancakes/90757-remembering-1973-oil-crisis.html).

 

I wanted to attempt to quantify the value of CA HOV sticker.
My time is valuable (not much discretionary time with family and work)

I save 20 minutes extra per day in HOV lane, which is a conservative estimate. (I could double that number, easily)

If I used $45/hr rate, that is $15 per day at ~250 work days per year, 1 year is $3,750 value.
Even if I use $30 per hr, that is $2500 per year.

Chris