Why Didn't Toyota get a charge out of the Plug In Prius?

I still think there are powers in the US that fight the release of available fuel efficient personal vehicles to us. You folks on the other side of the pond have always (in my adult lifetime at least) had more selection.

 

You have many options to choose from, including some we don't have. Whether people choose to buy them is something else.

 

Take the blinders off.

Notice the traditional vehicles are absolutely crushing the sales of plug-in vehicles.

Then join your local EV club for a dose of reality about the market.

 

We are limited on diesels. Mostly due to poor past examples, but also emission regulations.
The smaller displacement petrols would not have sold here in the past to be worthwhile for the manufacturers.
The only hybrid I can recall that has an ICEV available here but isn't offered is the Fit.

 

Do you realize the disservice and unbalance the use of "ICEV" brings about?

People see the new term with "EV" in it and assume that actually means something is new. That makes sense if nothing is different. There are an endless numbers of examples of new labels used to indicate something is new. In this case, it's just a replace for the ICE term the rest of us have been using for many, many years now.

What benefit does the new label bring anyway? If there actually is one, then you must also stop using the "hybrid" label and only refer to them as "HV" from now on. Lack of consistency can become a problem.

Since you are one of the outspoken regular posters, I specifically highlighted your quote. Seeing it used by others is one thing, but you have more of an influence... hence asking you directly. If we want to all move forward, it's seemingly small details like this which really have an influence.

 

what is ICEV?

 

John, ICEV is the accepted SAE shorthand term for the traditional, ICE vehicle. I started using it to keep from switching between conventional and traditional, both of which could have bagage for the reader. ICE is also used here to refer to the engine of a hybrid. Adding the V clarifies that the subject is a whole car, and not a part of one.

For the hybrids available to the public, the SAE term is HEV, to differentiate between electric and hydraulic types.

Internal Combustion Engine Vehicle, or non-hyrid, plug in hybrid, battery electric, fuel cell vehicle, etc.

They are also crushing hybrids except the Prius.

 

We've overwhelming confirmed abbreviations are problematic.

By far, the better choice than introducing yet another is to simply say: non-hybrid

Notice how EV doesn't actually tell us much anyway? Prius PHV is just as much an electric-only vehicle in a wide variety of circumstances. In fact, I'm at a coffeeshop now typing this. I got here via a 55 mph highway and a little bit of suburb. Total distance round-trip: 8.8 miles. Total amount of gas consumed: 0.0 gallons. It was all EV as far as the energy consumption is concernedbtw, since I was out, I stopped at the grocery and hardware stores. 10.8 miles total. 0.0 gallons of gas. All electric.

 

The context here was Tesla Model S vs similar luxury/performance class ICE vehicles.

Here's a quote from a Fortune magazine article from last year about this topic:

Tesla Sales Blow Past Competitors, But With Success Comes Scrutiny - Forbes

 

you can't have it both ways. either mfg.'s have dropped the ball, or people don't choose to buy them.tesla is an interesting study. it doesn't speak to the average buyer, but i think it tells us that in the future, more than a few people will accept a 300 mile range ev, if the price is right.

 

Course I can have it both ways. Toyota dropped the ball by offering a compromised product at too high a price and people then chose not to buy it.

If Toyota UK hadn't upped the PIP price by £5k to take advantage of the £5k grant, the PIP would have been at a comparable price to what you paid for yours, and they may have sold here. The PIP here costs £33,395 or US$50,992!!! before grant (not far off a Mirai!). Even here where cars cost more you'd have to have your head looked at to pay that. That's BMW 5 series money. Other manufacturers saw that that was taking the piss and undercut them, and continue to undercut them, and are selling PHEVs by the truck load.

It's a shame as the PIP at the right price would be a great car.

 

The irony about blinders here is pretty rich.

Cool story bro. I did like 6 different errands yesterday and drove 67 miles all electric without charging once. Still had 17% of charge left, and this with going 75 mph on freeways and hard acceleration.

 

oh, yeah???

 

Affordable for the masses was the discussion.

Good example of how the market is not ready.

Whether intended our not, the continued "more is better" message about plug-in capacity is a clear sign that the spirit of cooperation to compete against traditional vehicles is not there yet.

 

At least try to stand-by your definition.

 

Like SOC and M/G? Organically created abbreviations can be problematic. PiP is a Priuschat created shorthand. Is it used or published anywhere else? New comers to the site could be confused by it, for it doesn't follow the official name of the name.

On the other hand, the SAE takes proposed abbreviations and definitions, posts them for discussions, and then finally releases a refined version in order to avoid confusion. See next

Is that a internal combustion engine car or a electric motor one?

No it doesn't, which is why the SAE has defined BEV, HEV, PHEV, and FCEV. EV itself can refer to a type of car or a hybrid mode of operation that is using just electrical power and motors to propel the vehicle.

People that spend more than a passing moment in the discussions here need to learn the meanings of: PiP, HyCam, HiHy, SOC, MG/, PandG, stealth, warp stealth, NiMH, etc. All message boards seem to develop their own short hand. Me using PPI didn't throw the board into chaos, and I think the use of ICEV will quickly be grokked.

huh?
Perhaps y first quoted post wasn't clear enough. I just reread it myself when looking at your post.
"The only hybrid offered in other markets I can recall that has an ICEV available here, but isn't offered is the Fit."
Honda sells the Fit(or Jazz) in the US, but doesn't sell the hybrid one here. Other hybrids for sale elsewhere, but not in the US, are usually of models that for sale here to begin with. They also may not be offered here for the same reason we don't get smaller displacement engines, and the smaller cars. They aren't expected to sell.

 

PLUG-IN HYBRID is what I use.

The category of vehicle that refers to is quite clear.

 

they are confused by it, and often ask, 'what is pip'? that's why i use it. it leads to conversation.

 

Did you have any advertising to the PIP in the UK?
The (high) price may have been derived from the limited supply offered to your market.
Here in Israel we have high price and no advertising at all and 'deep throat' at the importer told me they are receiving very limited supply from Toyota all the way from launch to now.