Why Didn't Toyota get a charge out of the Plug In Prius?

I think you're both not entirely correct. The main reason for Toyota to only sell the PiP in CARB states more than likely has to do with their Lithium battery supply and the fact they actually created their first PHEV on the Prius platform. The Prius was first for their hybrid models as well as their Plug-ins. Are they going to produce more Plug-ins? Yes, the Prius Team actually hinted as much (Honda, Toyota, and Hyundai answer fuel cell questions | Page 4 | PriusChat). Are they going to give the PiP greater range in the next model? Probably. Did they learn anything from our gripes and impassioned defense of the PiP? Oh yeah, it would silly for them NOT to lurk and learn. They are also probably delighted at the robustness of the PiP Lithium battery, particularly when many of us report the number of times we've plugged in and the sheer number of EV miles many of us have reported. I'm not entirely sure Toyota was expecting that.

The only thing throwing a monkey wrench into Toyota's plug-in and hybrid plans is the low gas price phenomena. Probably another reason to delay the introduction of the next generation Prius and/or PiP. Of course the drought is also throwing a monkey wrench into their FCV plans. Since it takes 10.25 gallons of water to fill up the Mirai, I'm not sure how eager California wants to pursue solar electrolysis even if efficiency goes up 25% in the next 5 years. And I'm not entirely sure how much water is needed for steam reformation of natural gas into hydrogen. I guess we'll see whether "Water will be the new Oil" will come true.

 

Has the Prius improved since the first Gen I model in reliability, efficiency, economy and looks...you betcha. But it took a while to do this. If the PIP continues, I would imagine the same. Something in my gut says just because Toyota is now looking into fuel cell tech, does not mean they will ignore or discontinue the successful hybrids, gas cars , 4X4's...and yes plug-in hybrids (including PIP).

 

I haven't heard any comments from executives, or seen commercials panning hybrids, gas cars, or 4X4s coming from Toyota.
I have seen them panning plugins though.

Frankly I'm shocked Toyota didn't take the lead in plugins. While I don't expect them to discontinue the PiP, due to their public comments and commercials, I would not be shocked at this point if they allowed the PiP to wither on the vine and never roll it out nationwide.

 

They have here. The Tesla S has sold more than the PIP in total, the Outlander PHEV has outsold the PIP by an amazing amount; 10k sales in 12 months compared to about 250. There is a market for BEV and PHEV over here as petrol hasn't reduced in price much following the fall in oil prices mainly due to petrol tax.

Toyota are pushing their hybrid models quite well, but let's face it, they're old hat now. Hybrid is so 20th century.

Also, Renault/Nissan are paying to support a UK nationwide fast charge network and Tesla are doing the same with their superchargers (why they don't bang their heads together and cooperate is another matter), and Toyota are doing diddly squat. To me they're no longer a 'green' company.

 

Pardon my grammar. Corrected wording in post #102 as I did not mean Toyota was dissing their bread and butter...but you knew that.

 

Knowing that making it affordable to the masses is the primary objective, the fact that batteries are still striving to reach that point should have been a clue.

The failure of Volt taking the market by storm was another obvious indicator. There was wishy-washy response to both Leaf and Tesla as well.

Rolling out mid-cycle made it much easier to keep the plan flexible too.

Then there's the reality of low gas prices.

 

I don't see Toyota having any problem getting all the lithium batteries they need. Don't forget they have a partnership and large stock stake in Panasonic. Then they use Li-ion in the 3 seat row version of the Prius v. Toyota had also announced they expected the first year sales for the PPI to be 60k before its release. If a battery shortage happened after that, no reports have been made.

Even if there was something limiting their PPI supply, there has been enough to roll the car out to one or more states. Texas supposedly has some nice plugin incentives, and other plugins are selling well there. Even the Tesla which can't have an actual sales store in the state.

Nissan is one of the major partners of Chademo. While there may have been some nationalistic reasons for the European and American companies to eschew Chademo, the main reason is because of the excessive licensing fees the Chademo group wanted in the beginning.

I'm sure Chademo was available when Tesla started their charger designing. Either way, it charged slower than what they wanted, and there wasn't any other standards out, so they made their own. Supercharger is probably the superior one out of the three.

 

one thing you can say for toyota unequivocally, they haven't been proven wrong yet. and i don't think anyone who manufactures a product that runs on fossil fuel, can be called 'green'.

 

I think you can make a case for that for Volt and LEAF but Tesla?

My sense is that the Model S has done quite a bit better than most people expected and beyond what Tesla had publically projected earlier. Within its price range and performance luxury class it's grabbed quite a substantial market share in the U.S. I certainly wouldn't call it a wishy-washy market response.

 

Did the first generation of the North American Prius take the market by storm?

 

it's just the usual gm 'leapfrog' hype that didn't leave the company with bob klutz.

 

It was rolled out as internet-only sales with a limited quota, then switched to dealer with limited quota.

It was Gen-2 that was aimed at the general population without limit.

 

and demand was so high, '04 wait times were 12-16 months.

 

In other words, the answer is No.

 

It didn't have that goal.

That's why asking for goals had been so important. It's easy to ask a question not relevant to purpose long after the fact without knowing.

 

And there was a war in Iraq in 2004-2008 spiraling out of control with rising gas prices versus the Volt in 2011-2015 still stuck or slowly emerging from the worst recession since the 1930's with falling gas prices....

 

you got that right brother.

 

you're kidding, right? you do realize that the Tesla, despite having a selling price of about 3x of a Prius PHV, has outsold it by nearly 4x? So basically…a "12x" difference.
Leaf is outselling PHV by 3x
Volt by 2x

Not sure on what planet this is "wishy-washy".

 

They sold 10k in less than 12 month.

Toyota have sold a TOTAL of 1,324 PIPs in 24+ months (379 last year)
Vauxhall/GM sold a TOTAL of 1,169 Amperas and 130 RHD Volts in 24+ months

Vauxhall/GM/Opel/Chevrolet have now indicated that they will not be bringing Volt 2 to the UK in RHD due to poor sales of Volt/Ampera 1.

There is quite clearly a demand for PHEV vehicles here (petrol is $8 a US gallon still), yet GM UK fluffed the roll out big time, and Mitsubishi who have always had a small market share here have released a vehicle people want and are selling them in record numbers.

Heads should roll at GM somewhere, and probably at Toyota too. Who killed the Electric Car? There should be a follow up of Who Killed the PHEV and GM & Toyota should be the subject matter.