Featured Why Are Hyundai's EVs So Good? And Why Are Toyota's So Bad?

It's already out.

EV9 Inventory availability | Kia EV Forum

 

How do they feel? We’ve heard two different stories from them

 

What of the other EV makers? Toyota offering less range, slower charge rates, and lower performance for the same price doesn't just apply to comparisons with Hyundai.

A slow down in EV sales likely means still faster than other segments.

Tesla's outlook of slower sales is based upon the fact that many of their models lost the federal credit for 2024.

The rental fleet segment is very different than retail.

 

What Percent Of US Car Sales Are Electric? (jdpower.com)
"Electric vehicles account for less than 1% of the 250 million vehicles, SUVs, and light-duty trucks sold in the United States. Because only around 17 million new cars are being built each year, changing the vehicles from gas-powered to electric will be a long process, especially as far as the government is concerned."

Might be time to take a break from the EV shrilling going on here at Prius Chat and pause for a deep breath and take a more balanced sensible view of EV's!

EV's are great but they are not the end all and be all that many here portray them as.

 

EVs made up 7.6% of new car sales last year. The rate of growth is starting to slow down, but that still works out to a lot more EVs sold each year. This year's growth in new car sales might be all from EVs.

https://www.autoweek.com/news/a46463036/2023-ev-sales-growth-cox-gm-ford/
A Record 1.2 Million EVs Were Sold in the U.S. in 2023, According to Estimates from Kelley Blue Book - Cox Automotive Inc.

 

idk what ev shrilling is, but i don't think it's too much to ask toyota (and others) to make some competitive ev's.

this isn't the toyota fanboy forum.

 

Toyota isn't a company I would currently look for if I would to buy another BEV. PHEV, yes, BEV, no

 

No, it's not. I wouldn't buy a BEV from any of these two. Heck, I wouldn't buy another vehicle from those Korean manufacturers but did buy Prius Prime...

 

There PHEVs are compelling. Shame they aren't able to make them in any decent numbers. Closest Rav4 Primes to me are in NYC.

 

They might have designed them for the Chinese market. Heard the shorter ranges are more the norm there. The higher prices here could be to help subsidize them there.

 

That's not going too well for sales here in the usa.
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But we are only the third largest EV market. The earlier Lexus BEV only got released in China and Europe. Toyota might think we are lucky to get anything.

 

Bloomberg said that the estimated global plug-in growth in 2024 will be around 20%, down from 40% in 2022. That is rapid growth in a stagnant auto market. They expect growth to accelerate in 2025-2028 as battery plants are completed and costs and hopefully prices go down. I doubt that tesla is losing many sales because of lack of US incentives, they likely are keeping prices where they are to increase profit margin as costs continue to fall.

Agree that the rental fleet is very different than retail and not very important to tesla's top or bottom line.

 

Toyota is outstandingly positioned to take advantage of the current Automotive fads:

An entire fleet that all have Hybrid offerings of each model
+
Lexus Plug in Hybrid
Prius Prime Plug in Hybrid
RV4 Prime Plug in Hybrid
+
bZ4 all electric model
A Lexus SUV that is all electric/American Made/with an American Made Battery(Late 2024/early 2025)
+
American Eletric Battery Manufacturing Facility located in North Carolina.

No wonder Toyota is in such great Finanancial shape and enjoying a Financial bonanza in the current market conditions.
Toyota remains the biggest car company after 2023 record sales (motor1.com)
"For the fourth year in a row, Toyota is the best-selling automaker in the world."

Toyota to invest $1.3B at Georgetown, Kentucky, factory to build battery packs and new electric SUV (msn.com)

I thought reading the post here that Toyota didn't know what they were doing?

 

Toyota Vs. Tesla: Growth Versus Value, Which Is The Better Option Right Now? (NYSE:TM) | Seeking Alpha

A major reason Toyota is fearful to build battery charging infrastructure as well as battery plants is due to how huge their debt load is. All the while they claim to believe EV's are not as substantial as they are worldwide. Huge Capital outlay devalues their stock & creates an ever-increasing debt load. That's why they want to stick with ICE - because that capital outlay as well as hybrids expense are already up front paid for.
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Toyota Supercharges North Carolina Battery Plant with New $8 Billion Investment - Toyota USA Newsroom

Toyota Battery Manufacturing, North Carolina (TBMNC) - Toyota USA Newsroom

Leading car manufacturers by revenue 2022 | Statista (2023 not out yet)
this website is funny to access but :
VW #1
Toyota #2 with a bullet
no problems whatsoever with their profitability- they have always been one of the best if not the best financially positioned carmaker!

How can this be?

 

Tesla warns of 'notably lower' sales growth in 2024 (bbc.com)

Ford pulls the plug on EV strategy as losses pile up • The Register

GM Reverses All-In EV Strategy to Bring Back Plug-In Hybrids (yahoo.com)

but it's Toyota that doesn't know what it is doing? -okay

Toyota remains the biggest car company after 2023 record sales (motor1.com)

 

No idea. If so, perhaps Toyota designed for China, leaving limited space for a more capacity elsewhere. There are other possible reasons, but I'm going with what happened with the gen4 Prius Prime. They just completely ignored what others had and were doing, and stuck to their preconceived notion of plug ins only work as short range models.

There is also the higher energy prices there.

Yes, 20% growth is a notable slow down from the 40% a couple years ago.

Ford and others delaying their, higher than Toyota's, EV investment is not a sign of the segment failing. Just that the unprecedented growth didn't continue(see first statement). Claiming such also ignores that there other factors in play. Higher interest rates are higher than when Ford was setting these plans, and the Union contract wasn't a non-event.

GM had unplanned delays with their EV releases. Without those cars to counter their popular ICE models for CAFE, they increased their timeline for bringing PHEVs back. And they were planning to do such with California and other major markets here going to plug in only new in the not distant future.