Whose running on E-85?

Hi All,

Even the flex fuel cars , which can run on E85 , and get CAFE credits for their manufacturers, really are no designed to run on E85. Otherwise, the E85 mileage would be allot greater.

The easiest way to do this is to have an electronically controlled waste gate on a Turbo Charger, that is driven by a fuel sensor. The Prius iVVT might do this by increasing compression ratio based on a fuel sensor. But, its not in the 2nd or 3rd generation cars.

 

I trust that all who regularly use E-85 will tell prospective purchasers of their car that they have done so . . .

 

I don't think the last statement is true. Ethanol has less energy content than gasoline, hence the mileage hit.

MotorWeek: Auto Basics: Goss' Garage talked about the changes that have to be made for flex fuel vehicles.

 

Hi cwerda,

Ethanol may have less fuel energy, but it being higher octane there is the capability to get more of that energy converted to mechanical energy. Without engines that can take advantage of this and open borders for ethanol, Ethanol is just a subsidized pork product for the car companies and farmers. Ethanol for transportation is only permitted to be US made, and nothing from Brazil is permtted. The article you site only details the engine modifications which permit continuous use of ethanol in an engine and fuel system, nothing regarding proper mechanical engineering of the heat cycle for ethanol.

Its this lack of engince heat cycle engine modification that is wasteful. Something like 10 % of the mechanical energy that Ethanol has potential is wasted in flex-fuel cars consequently. Its this double wamy of improper egnine thermodynamics and lower energy content which makes E-85 a very poor solution right now, from the car operator's point of view.

And car technicians know this too. For evidence, the Swedish experimetation converting their Volvo Turbo's into ethanol capable cars, with variable waste gates. I think this is also the hidden agenda behind the Ford project to make smaller Turbo charged engines (Eco-Boost?) is probably aimed at taking advantage of this. An E85 run small Turbo is going to have allot more power than the same engine run on gasoline.

 

You miss the obvious point that flex fuel cars were never meant to be operated with E-85. Flex fuel was done entirely as a legal issue in exchange for other consideration (credits). The original flex fuel cars were not even marked in any obvious way to show that they could, in theory, use E-85. Only later, when green-washing became desirable, did the E-85 ornamentation show up.

Tom

 

goo news for those of you who may be interested: The Toyota serviceman called Toyota engineering, and they said there should be no lasting effects from this. They told the serviceman to drain the tank, flush it through with regular fuel then fill the tank with regular fuel again. What a relief! Won't be doing that ever again!

 

Good to hear. Mistakes happen so don't beat yourself up over it. It could have been worse, you could have put diesel in the tank.

 

First, one tank of E85 will not cause harm, as it takes time to eat the seals. There was "normal" fuel in the car when you put the E85 in so you probably ended up with around E60. Note that the Prius IS ok with E10 and even E15 according to the owners manual. E10 is the only fuel I use and I love it as the engine intake tract is much cleaner and I don't have to worry about gasline antifreeze. The check engine light would have gone away or could have been reset once you burned the tank of improper fuel. The car's computer was upset because the fuel/oxygen ratio wasn't right and it couldn't get it right.

Flex-fuel cars ARE designed to run on E85 full time. They have a sensor in the fuel line that adjusts the engine to run on whatever is flowing into it from E0 to E85. They also have a fuel pump designed to not be damaged by ethanol, injectors designed to not be damaged by ethanol, and many other "special parts" in the fuel system. When put on a table it's quite a pile of "different parts".

This all being said, in a Motorweek test of "fuel efficient vehicles", a GM flexfuel pickup was among the test vehicles, and Motorweek tested it with "normal" fuel and then E85. When run on E85 the -cost per mile- was more than 30% GREATER than when run on regular gasoline, never mind the mileage! So not only did it have NO effect on the amount of foreign fuel burned, it also cost the owner more to use!

What a good idea! Another GM "better idea". Or is that Ford?

 

Actually ethanol is a gobment BS deal. State or fed take your choice.

 

"Gobment" is just the enabler: the real villain in corn ethanol is the corn agribusiness lobby. Contact your Congressanimals, and tell them to grow a pair and blow off the lobbyists.

 

Yup! Agreed