Who's fault is this?

This was my interpretation as well. As an unrelated comment, we always use the term "orange light" as a joke to mean a traffic light shifting from yellow to red as you enter the intersection. The yellow and red blend to form orange: "No sir. That wasn't a red light; it was still orange."

Tom

 

Hey Tom,

As an aside...I just spent one of the best weeks of my life in Michigan (helping the Michigan economy all I can...son goes to UMich, as well).

My wife, 2 dogs and one of my son's rented a house on Lake Michigan (@ Good Hart). In a word - Spectacular. Although not sure i would want to visit in the Winter.

I'd like to say we all drove to Michigan in my Prius, but that would be a lie. Too much stuff...and the dogs are too big....to all fit in the Prius. But I was tempted to try.

 

Despite poorly worded traffic laws, the intent of the yellow light is simple and obvious. It allows drivers to maintain full speed while the light is green, while providing a warning and grace period as the light prepares to shift to red. Without this warning signal, all drivers would have to assume that a light could turn red at any instant. This would require each driver to slow to a crawl when approaching a green light, as higher speed would risk skidding through a suddenly red light. Obviously this would be bad for the flow of traffic.

Wording aside, the intent of the yellow light is the same everywhere: stop if you can do it safely. "Safely" is a judgment call. If you are too close to safely stop, the yellow light provides time to clear the intersection before the light turns green in the other direction.

In the ideal world there is never a point at which a driver cannot safely stop before the intersection, or safely exit the intersection before the crossing light turns green. Of course we don't live in an ideal world. We have snow, ice, speeding drivers, and poorly timed lights. Nevertheless, the theory and intent remains the same.

Tom

 

Old joke: What does red light mean? Stop
What does green light mean? Go
What does yellow light mean? Go faster!

Seriously, though, if a cop were there, you would have gotten a ticket. I once had a similar experience, except I was following a car on a two-lane road through town, doing maybe 25 mph. As we approached the intersection, the light turned yellow and the guy in front of me immediately slammed on his brakes, although he could've easily made it through. It took me by surprise, for sure. Since I was sure I couldn't stop in time to avoid a collision, I was faced with a split-second decision: smash into him or try to steer around him. I chose the latter and made it past him, while the light was still yellow. Well, as luck would have it, there was a cop car at the crossing intersection, and soon I saw flashing lights in my rearview mirror. When I told him I couldn't stop and that I didn't technically run a red light, he said it was careless and dangerous to pass him and that since the other guy stopped, I should've, too. Luckily, he let me off with a warning, but I sure learned a lesson.

 

As per legal counsel -

"Minturn Wright, attorney at law -

Remarkably, what a steady yellow traffic signal light means varies from place to place. You'd think that this is one of the most important traffic signals to have mean the same thing from coast to coast, but despite all the uniformization of certain traffic laws, this isn't one of them.


In some states, such as maryland, a "steady yellow signal" means simply that "the related green movement is ending" or that the light is about to turn red (code of maryland, transportation article, section 21-202 (g)). in other words, drivers may keep entering the intersection; in other other words, "green means go, yellow means go like hell". in the district of columbia, however, a steady yellow light means yes, the light is about to turn red, but more importantly, "vehicular traffic shall stop before entering the nearest crosswalk of the intersection, unless so close to the intersection that a stop cannot safely be made" (d.c. Municipal regulations, title 18, chapter 21, section 2103.5 (b)). In other words, a yellow light means "do not enter the intersection" and allows a few seconds for traffic in the intersection to get out of the intersection so that when cross-traffic gets its green light, those drivers don't have to wait for the intersection to be cleared (at least, in theory)."

 

You seem to be making a big point of saying that you don't think people should be slamming on their brakes for yellow lights. I'll certainly agree with that; slamming on the brakes is an inherently dangerous thing to do. On the other hand if they can come to a safe stop (i.e. without having to slam on their brakes) at a yellow light they should do so.

Personally I cultivated the habit when I was first learning to drive to make a decision as I am approaching any intersection as to when I no longer consider it safe to try and stop if the light changes. So there isn't any need for me to make split second decisions about whether it is safe to stop.

 

We agree. But if you go back and read some of the early posts on this thread, the poor OP was getting slammed by folks who think entering, or proceeding through an intersection, with a yellow light, was akin to some mass murder.

My point was - there are exceptions for every case. People like to look at things in purley black & white...ie, the light was yellow, so "you should have stopped the car at all cost". None of us were there, and it's hard to say exactly what all the circumstances were. Who knows, maybe he had a brain-fart (as my kids would say), and by the time he realized, he was committed to proceeding through the intersection...so he sped up? I've done that, and I'm sure most of us have.

If i have some idea of who's infront of me, i have a pretty good guess what their move will be (anticipation plays a big part in safe driving). If it's an older person, a woman with children,m etc, chances are, they will stop...even if that means coming to a panic stop by slamming on their brakes. If it's a younger person, or someone in a spiffy sports sedan...good chance they will blow right through the intersection while the light is yellow.

 

Its his fault. Anyone going straight always has the right of way versus a guy who is turning.

 

Ive done it you've done we've all done. If someone tells you they never have its just bull turd.

BUT, if you're going to do it you need to be 100% sure you'll get thru the intersection safe..not "I think I'll make it" but 100% certain. I mean who in their right mind would put themselves or another person in harms way?

That being said, it doesnt matter where you live, yellow means slow down and prepare to stop. Right.. there are those times when you cant stop safely. If you find yourslef in that twilght zone space you should almost always be able to make it through the typical intersection at the same speed your were going. If you see yellow and have time to speed up to get you through then you had time to slow down and stop.

Somedays Im heavy footed, annoyed and my driving style is more aggressive than normal and it seems I get caught at every light on the road. Just ask yourself "what's the big hurry?"
It never fails there is no rush, no urgency after all.

Take it easy....

 

OK.... so if Driver 'Anyone' going 35MPH rear ends the car ahead of him -Driver 'Guy' as he's trying to make a turn, 'Anyone' has the right of way. Right???

Hope you're not the cop responding to that accident call.

 

Not if the person going straight runs a red light. I know that doesn't apply to the OP's case, but you are making an absolute statement that isn't valid in all cases.

Tom

 

This also varies by state.

Where I was first licensed to drive, your description applies -- the left turner waits for the red light to stop oncoming traffic, then completes the turn when it is safe to do so. Side traffic with a fresh green light is prohibited from entering the intersection until prior traffic has cleared.

Where I am now licensed to drive, the anti-gridlock law requires all traffic, including those waiting to make left turns, to clear the intersection before the light turns red.

I suspect that had your situation occurred in this state and resulted in a collision, both parties would have been cited. Both parties had a choice to avoid the collision, and had either party done so, the collision would have been avoided.

 

:cheer2:

 

This amazes me every time I drive as I was taught when I learned to drive that yellow meant stop if at all reasonably possible. It appears that what is now taught is if it turns yellow, try to get as many cars through as possible before it turns red. No, I'm not that old either.

 

I think the only universal truth, across all states, is - RED means don't enter the intersection. Unfortunately, YELLOW has a number of different interpretations/meanings, depending upon where you live.

 

.

 

You have perfectly described what happened to me in an accident 23 years ago. I was driving my car in SF and went through a yellow light (turned red after I entered into the intersection). A fellow got his green light, drove into the intersection and I hit his front left fender. I was found at fault because he was entering the intersection on a green light (me on a yellow).

Funny, my mistake was not "flooring it" when I hit the intersection, it could have made me more visible (and audible) rather than maintaining my speed like I did.

Lesson learned, I don't try to make yellow lights....and I haven't been rear ended (yet).
__________________

 

Good for you. But I have - twice.

By the way, this is EXACTLY why many states have a 1.5-2.0 second delay before the light in the other direction turns green, after your light turns red. As per my earlier remark - there's NO grey area when it comes to entering an intersection when the light is RED. It's illegal in every state. Period. But there is, in some states, when the light is YELLOW. A short delay in the other direction, before the light turns GREEN, would pretty much mitigate the types of situations you described. This is not rocket science.

Maybe Cal (or SF) should learn to be more progressive when it comes to things like this, and then maybe stuff like that wouldn't happen to people like you?

 

Once I was driving at speed limit and at about 5 yards before the light it turned yellow. I step on the brake by reflex but changed my mind and step on the gas paddle to cross the whole cross-section faster, but still safe 'cause there was no other traffic.

I got pulled over by a cop at the next block. I explained to him that since I was driving a minivan, I felt that the momentum of the car made me estimate that if I made a full stop I'd be stopping in the middle of the cross-section, which would be really unsafe.

He let me go with a warning.

 

Your colors and grammar are confusing.

Um yes... If that guy is making the turn against a red light, then the guy who is going straight along the road on the green/yellow right has a right of way against him. So if the guy making a turn pulls in front of the guy going straight, the turning guy is at fault. Yellow still means you can enter the intersection, red means STOP. You can only turn right against a red if you stop, look, and its clear. If there are cars coming, why would you have the right of way?? this is common sense logic, somebody at a red doesn't have a right of way against traffic going against a green.

And yes, go look up a drivers manual. A driver going straight always has the right of way against a driver making a turn when the driver going straight has a green light. If its a stop sign or the lights are green but they are turning, you can turn left on a green light if there's no green arrow, but only after the cars in the other lane going straight/turning right pass you. They have the right of way. Wow i can't believe im explaining this to people with drivers licenses.

Wow, i see complete utter lack of driving knowledge and skill while on the road but i expected more from drivers on this forum.