Who sells the most cars and trucks in America?

Dang, four current threads now totalling 187 posts, plus 676 for Smoke & Mirrors =
863 posts.

malorn, you is DA MAN!

 

you people are still feeding this troll? i figured you would have learned by now. same old arguements repackaged as a new thread. hmmph.

 

galaxee! how ya doin' up with the cheeseheads?

 

Build a Prius-like green, fuel-efficient, great looking hybrid, with lots of features that people actually want (and need) for base price 22K. That's it.

 

Whatever happened to the GM Lean Machine? That was an innovative vehicle that made it into Hot Wheels but not production. I recall a history of many GM concept vehicles that never saw the light of day. Why spend so much on R&D if the D part never happens?

 

The thing of it is, there are a lot of people out there who just aren't interested in the American car companies any longer, or what cars they produce, or how many they sell. Permanently turned off to them. It's good that GM is selling so many cars in China because they are selling to a shrinking market at home.

 

As Czar:

Most importantly, I would restrict marketing money to levels no greater than that spent by Honda or Toyota on new car rollouts. If the intrinsic value of the car cannot sell itself, it should be canned. SUV's and trucks are to a large extent a market made and perpetuated by advertising. GM and Ford are finding out that the cost of maintaining it is too high, is easily parasitized by other companies, and (maybe?) are beginning to realize costs will only skyrocket over time due to enviro impact.

Adaptation, not PR. GM has itself convinced that vehicles are a commodity that only marketing can differentiate between the offerings. Toyota and Honda know better.

I just saw Jack's post, and I concur 100%. GM and Ford are albatrosses, and I do not forgive them the damage they have and continue to do to our society. I tried to answer your question in good faith malorn, but personally, the sooner the company white collar idiots get in line for unemployment, the happier I will be. Mostly I am sorry that the US manufacturing base is rotting away. That is so not good.

 

I give them two years and a mega-trillion gov bailout, and then we will be reading how GM has firm plans to hold 20% of the US market.

 

I think if you read his post he does have real ideas. He is sarcastic, but he does hint at real ideas about what Ford and GM need to do...

Let me repost the original statistics that you started this thread with:
TOP 8
----Cars ---- Trucks ----Total
Chevrolet ----899,116 ----1,752,008 ----2,651.124
Ford ----742,423 -----1,891,618 ---- 2,634,041
Toyota ----981,423 ----819,271 ----1,800,916
Honda ---- 686,160 ----566,702 ----1,252,862
Dodge ----312,221 ----866,787 ----1,179,008
Nissan ----477,563 ----462,705 ----940,268
Chrysler ----382977 ----266,316 ----649,293
GMC ---- 0 ----537,572 ----537,572

This is extremely telling. I want to illustrate something, so let me whip out Excel...
percent cars percent trucks
Chevy 33.91% 66.09%
Ford 28.19% 71.81%
Toyota 54.50% 45.50%
Honda 54.77% 45.23%
Dodge 26.48% 73.52%
Nissan 50.79% 49.21%
Chrysler58.98% 41.02%
GMC 0.00% 100.00%

I'll add Chevy and GMC into a "GM" and also bundle Dodge and Chrysler into DCX.

DCX 38.02% 61.98%
GM 28.20% 71.80%


It's pretty clear. Looking above, all of the Japanese manufacturers stand out by having a split of cars vs. trucks that favors cars from around 50% to 55%.

GM, Ford, and DCX have a significant majority of their sales in trucks. It is true that GM and Ford have basically the market cornered in trucks. They do excellent trucks, without a doubt.

And by those numbers, Toyota is in 4th place among truck sales, but they are a very distant fourth place... 2nd place Ford sold more than a million more trucks than Toyota, and Dodge sold 50000 more trucks. I certainly can't see how Toyota is going to challenge Ford and GM at the top of the truck business.

What's more telling about those numbers is that Toyota clearly dominates the Car segment, selling close to a million. Toyota hasn't gotten successful up until this point by dominating Trucks, but by relying on it's old mainstay of the compact and midsize car... cars like corolla and camry.

So, and here's my ultimate point... GM especially has been focused on developing what they've been doing best, in the market where they have it cornered along with Ford... Trucks. The big news for us hybrid enthusiasts out of GM has been the new full hybrid in the Tahoe SUV.

But if they really want to keep Toyota at bay, they need to compete with Toyota where Toyota and the other Japanese manufacturers have been doing the best historically... cars! To keep Toyota at bay, GM and Ford need to make a name for themselves not just as truck companies but as CAR companies.

I feel Ford has been doing a lot in that area. The Fusion is a big step forward, and if a hybrid version shows up soon, Ford'll get a gold star from me.

An important note is that Toyota sells more cars than any other manufacturer, according to your numbers.

 

Malorn... you've said from the very beginning, and continue to assert that Toyota's hybrid cars, their smaller cars, etc, are all a distraction from their REAL business... you argue that Toyota's ultimate goal is to sell trucks and kill off GM and Ford by attacking their truck market.

But my opinion is that it's completely the opposite. The Toyota truck business is the distraction. The smoke and mirrors is the truck business.

The domestics are taking a highly defensive strategy. They subscribe to your way of thinking... they have focused on trucks, intent on defending the castle of their ever important truck market from the Japanese invaders.

This has taken shape in their hybrid strategies... GM makes the silverado the first "hybrid" they make. GM announces that the Yukon gets the first full hybrid drive... their cars will get it sometime in the future, but trucks are the most important.

But I feel that they need to stop being on the defensive of their truck business, and switch to being on the offensive. They need to strive hard to redefine themselves as viable car companies in addition to having great trucks. They need to put bold new designs out there in the midsize and compact segments. Toyota and Honda have put out the Yaris and the Fit, respecitvely for the US market. Great cars, compact, designed to be fuel efficient commuters. WHere's the GM, Ford, or DCX response?

They need to start stealing car marketshare from Toyota, Honda, etc... Again, Fusion is a good step.

 

I fully agree that the marketing blitz for the domestic automakers is money not well spent, and especially a waste in the areas in which they already dominate like trucks and SUV's.
I think some salvation for US makers lies in the developing "crossover" cars market. This market is ripe for innovation and no one has a corner on it. I think GM has already taken a step in the wrong direction with banking everything on the release of the new SUV. Yes, it is an improvement over the old one but is that where the markets are going in the face of rising fuel costs?
I would have spent that money developing a smaller SUV and place emphasis on trying to innovate ways to get more useful space out of it. Asian auto makers are experts at this and the US needs become more mindful of this when designing vehicles. Granted this is no easy snap-your-fingers type of task but I feel that's exactly what US automakers have to do--stop doing the easy things like relying on the past (old designs, customer loyalty, patriotism, etc) to sell vehicles and do something difficult like creating and dominating a new market.

 

I would really have to say that you are grasping at straws here malorn. A truck struck by a comet yet still rolls on. Versus two guys in t-shirts with their sleeves cut-off with almost greaser hair in old muscle car with no paint job drooling over a hemi.

 

And, worse for GM and Ford, the American consumer knows better too. And, the consumer has many more choices than ever before.

 

Bring the Camry Hybrid specs to your meeting, and ask when you can offer same for sale, and at what price.

Then do the same with Prius specs.

Then do the same with Honda Fit specs.

Tell them that all cars have to come with 100k bumper to bumper warranties included in the price to offset the decades of poor quality that consumers now expect from them. Demand SULEV or better emissions specs.

If you are told that the warrany will cost too much, call BS on the tale of great reliability.

 

Better to figure stuff out for yourself, but if you wish to be spoonfed --

By promoting and perpetuating the myth that expanding unsustainable exploitation is a virtue.
By doing its upmost to blur reality from hype and hubris.
By using it's lobbying power to derail Enviro initiatives.
By being a government handout parasite.

GM is to the economy, what junk food purveyors are to personal health.