Who needs an SUV?

I've been debating this, too...I have my own Anti-Prius, an Isuzu Rodeo. It's definitely got to go, but I wonder if I'll be happy without the cargo capabilities. I'm a professional musician and audio engineer and that means I carry copious amounts of gear around the LA area. Cargo is a big deal for me, and I HOPE the Prius is gonna work! My alternative would be a RAV-4 or CRV...I've considered Impreza Wagons, Mazda3 hatch, etc., but those probably aren't much more useful than the Prius and certainly aren't as efficent or as cool!

 

Make them give you a Prius for a weekend to try out, and see if your stuff will fit.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SW03ES @ May 9 2007, 11:06 AM) [snapback]438241[/snapback]</div>

So to save $1200 in rentals you're willing to pay $1600 to $2000 more in gas per year? (That is based on a Ford Edge vs Prius, 15 mpg vs 45 mpg, at $3 or $3.5 per gallon at 12K miles per year) You will also most likely pay more for the vehicle, because I don't know of too many SUV's that sell for less than the Prius. (The Edge AWD starts at $28K) That's just the economics on a SUV vs a car, let alone environmental and political reasons.

As far as a SUV for winter, that is just marketing hype. YOU DON'T NEED 4WD OR A SUV FOR SNOW! I know, I grew up in Michigan were it snows. You need to know how to drive and a set of winter tires and wheels. I don't care if you have 4wd or AWD, if you are out in snow with all-season tires you're asking for trouble.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SW03ES @ May 8 2007, 07:03 PM) [snapback]437932[/snapback]</div>

Sure, but with the activities I'd use the car for (hauling stuff, going off road), I could go without them for the span of the rental (or use my portable TomTom instead).

RE: other posts.

I personally haven't seen a rental agency that has vehicles with the factory GPS systems, but I noticed most of them rent the Garmin units for about $25/a day.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jhinton @ May 9 2007, 08:54 PM) [snapback]438699[/snapback]</div>

Well first of all I wouldn't buy a Ford Edge. The Edge isn't an SUV, wouldn't have any benefit over the Prius other than a little ground clearance and AWD. I've said several times if Toyota made a Rav4 in a Hybrid I'd buy it, but lets say a Highlander Hybrid. Much better gas mileage than the Edge, and with the amount Carla drives (very small, our 04 only has 26k miles) the extra cost of gas would be very small. Plus, we drive the Lexus on our trips now. I get 23-24MPG on the highway and thats high test, getting even 25MPG with regular would save us money there, and if we had a Highlander Hybrid we'd definately take that on all our trips instead of the Lexus.

I've had a 4WD SUV and I now have a FWD Prius and a FWD Lexus, it is not marketing hype. The benefit isn't the 4WD, its the ground clearance. I know how to drive in the snow, I grew up driving in the snow and you can only do so much in something as low as the Prius. Around here we don't get enough snow to make snow tires worthwhile, the main benefit would be when we travel. We like to ski, we boat, we camp, we rent cabins with friends. We rented a place last year I had to use peices of plywood to get the Lexus up the damn driveway when both the other couples there just pulled their SUVs (Rav4 and a CRV) right up the driveway. Had we had the Prius it would have taken a wrecker to haul it out. My broker has a Highlander Hybrid and a Prius, they could not even get the Prius out of their long gravel driveway in 2" of iced over snow because of the ruts. Highlander went right out.

You simply cannot replace an SUV if you do outdoor and woods or snow related things. Plus, sometimes its just nice not to have to worry about bottoming out all the time. Even if it costs more, for us its worth it.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Husker4theSpurs @ May 9 2007, 12:16 PM) [snapback]438292[/snapback]</div>

I traded in my Chevy Avalanche for my new Prius. Everyone gets a kick out of the change I made, but I could not be happier. About 50% less gas, and more options and gadgets then I every thought possible. I do not need to tow a camper anymore, so the giant SUV was no longer needed. The only drawback is, I am sure I can't carry more then a couple bags of wood pellets now (due to weight, not volume). We tore out the oil furnace a few years ago and put in a pellet boiler. Now the house is oil free, and our vehicles are very fuel efficient. We are doing our part Now if I could just get (and afford) a plug in kit for the Prius!

The real funny part is, my wife used to call my vehicle "The gas guzzler". Now I call her Pontiac Vibe "The gas guzzler". hahahaha!

 

The anti-Prius (see below) has Nokian WR SUV tires on it (all season). It works just fine in winter, freezing rain, light or heavy snow, etc. More importantly, it has enough ground clearance for the snow rutted side streets in Edmonton in winter. BTW, the tires also work very well in heavy rain, and even on dry summer roads, and don't wear rapidly. I expect at least 100k km on them (if I keep the anti-Prius).

Of course, being a heavy vehicle, you do have to be careful on ice, as it can take a long time to stop all that momentum! Even with ice tires, there is only limited traction and lots of energy to dissipate.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SW03ES @ May 10 2007, 12:45 AM) [snapback]438840[/snapback]</div>

I was only using the Edge as an example. I know that the Edge is considered a “crossoverâ€, not a SUV but once again that is marketing. The traditional SUV (Explorer) was a station wagon body on a truck frame. A “crossover†(Edge) is a station wagon with a taller unibody and taller suspension. The end result is the same except you get better handling, more interior room, and better fuel economy, but less hauling capability with the crossover. However, if the Edge isn’t a SUV, the neither are the CR-V, RAV4, or Highlander. They are all unibody construction.

Your “SUV†Choices:
Toyota Highlander Hybrid 4wd - $32,500 – 31 /27 / 21.5*
Toyota RAV4 4wd - $26,500 – 23 / 27 / 24*
(*EPA City / EPA Highway / EPA User Average)

Both cost more than the Prius and get less the half the mileage.


Now you say you don’t get enough snow to make snow tires worthwhile but it’s worthwhile to buy an SUV to drive in snow? How does this statement make any sense? Snow tires are easy. You buy an extra set of wheels and mount snow tires. In the winter or before your ski vacation you take the 30 minutes to unbolt one set of wheels and bolt on the other set. In my case, I used the stock wheels for winter and bought a set of performance wheels / tires for summer.

Your friend’s problem with his gravel driveway and 2†of snow is not a ground clearance problem, it is a traction problem. There is no way the Prius is bottoming out in 2†snow ruts. The Highlander most likely has more aggressive tires than the Prius. Your Lexus probably has performance tires or performance all-season tires which are next to useless in snow.

You CAN replace a SUV if you do outdoor, snow-related things. I did it 5 years ago. I replaced a 4wd Nissan Frontier with a FWD TDI Jetta Wagon. We camp, backpack, mountain bike, and snow-ski. If fact we are both Ski Patrollers and are on the slopes an hour or more before any of the general public arrives and before the plow crews have a chance to finish opening up the roads. As I said, the key is winter tires. We also have snow chains, but have only used them 3 times in the last 5 years.

You started out that you would NEED to rent a SUV for vacations and it would cost too much. Then you say you have a Lexus and drive that on trips anyways. Then you say you NEED a SUV because it snows. If you had just said that you WANT an SUV, and don’t care that it will cost you more to purchase and put gas in, then I would just let it drop. What gets me is people say they NEED an SUV because they do X once a year.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Boxster...WRX...Prius? @ May 9 2007, 03:10 AM) [snapback]438118[/snapback]</div>

The first week I had the Prius I hauled a 37" flat screen High Definition TV home in it, along with a large TV stand to set it on.

Both large boxes fit in the Prius, back seats folded down, and the hatch closed just fine.

Harry

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jhinton @ May 10 2007, 11:07 AM) [snapback]439090[/snapback]</div>

The unibody construction is not so much the issue as the ground clearance and suspension travel. The Highlander and the Rav-4 (I would also never purchase a CR-V) have frames that have been modified to expand suspension travel and ride on higher ground clearances, the Edge does not. I wouldn't have any need for a full body on frame SUV, I don't do any real offroading.

You're right though, I would not purchase a Highlander left to my own devices. I would purchase a Rav4 because I have first hand experience with how they handle in situations like the ones I'm looking to use an SUV for. My fiance however will not consider a vehicle for her daily driver if it was not a hybrid. So, that leaves me the Highlander, the RX400h which is worse, or the Escape or Mariner which she also wouldn't go for because they aren't japanese.

Left to my own devices I probably would look at a 4Runner, or a Honda Pilot.

My Prius was $27,000, loaded Priuses are nearly $30,000 now. Again, I don't care if they cost more. I'm not saying an SUV wouldn't cost me more.

Just for the record, I would buy a Limited Rav4 at $32k or a Limited HiHy at $42k, or I wouldn't buy one at all.

You aren't listening to me. It would be worthwhile for me to buy an SUV for when we vacation and have to use rough country roads to get back where we're staying. Snow is just an added benefit, we get maybe 2 snow days a year here. I would never buy an SUV just to drive in the snow here.

I'm glad you have such a handle on the situation seeing that you weren't there. I know the difference between a traction problem and a clearance problem. They weren't snow ruts, they were solid ice. We were totally bogged down with a big ice storm here this year, it snowed, then hard froze and was around for weeks. She has a long country driveway that has ruts itself, normally not a problem for their Prius but when coupled with the hard frozen snow ruts the car was BOTTOMING OUT. No traction problem, the driveway was downhill, they just could have coasted. They had to get out in the Highlander and rent him an SUV until it melted.

And also, for your information, the Highlander Hybrid and the Prius have exactly the same tires stock from the factory, the Goodyear Integirty.

The difference was, the Prius has 4 inches of ground clearance, the Highlander has 10.

As for the driveway in the Lexus, there was an 8 inch deep rut running across it, the problem was traction also, but mainly clearance.

Good for you, I don't want to mess with snow tires or chains and I don't want to worry about bottoming out all the time when I'm on vacation.

Yes, we drive the Lexus on trips and we can't get out and do the things we could do when we had the Explorer. Luckily when we go on these types of vacations we usually go with another couple who have an SUV, but I like to drive when I'm out doing things like this.

Perhaps need is not the right word, we're not suffering because we don't have an SUV. We would however benefit from having one again and when it comes time to replace the Prius, we will replace it with a environmentally concious SUV. End of story, won't consider anything else.

 

I'm considering a Prius for a work/around town car, but I'll never get rid of my truck. Some people actually use their hauling ability. Managed 14mpg with 2500lb of camper and a dirtbike.

 

This thread reminded me of a web page that I saw. The title of the page is Who Needs a Truck?

Have a look. I think some of the pictures are amazing.

Enjoy!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wiyosaya @ May 16 2007, 09:41 AM) [snapback]443447[/snapback]</div>

Those are great. Some people just know how to be efficient. But, 5 people on a motorbike? Wow. And I don't know about carrying a sheet of reflective material in front of you.

Dave M.

 

I have a 2005 Ford Explorer Sport-Trac. I really like it although it only gets 20MPG on the highway and around 14MPG in town. I use it to pull my boat (2500 lbs) a few times a year. I also enjoy hunting and fishing where I go off road to get there. It does not have the most ground clearance, but it gets me there and back. I also do surf fishing and you do need 4X4 to run on the beach plus it is great in snow. The small pick up back is all that I need to haul yard waste and other junk to the dump.

I have another gas gussler, a motor home, which I pull the Sport-Trac with 4 wheels down. My wife and I are retired and enjoy RV ing. I don't want to put the Prius on a dolly to pull it along. It cannot be towed 4 wheels down.

I would like to see Toyota make the Tocoma in a hybrid 4X4. I would love to have one. Maybe in the future we will see a hybrid motor home.

The Prius is our number one car to use when we are home, the Sport-Trac sits most of the time. We bought the Prius in the end of January and have just under 6,000 miles on it. In the same time we only put around 450 miles on the Sport-Trac.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dmckinstry @ May 16 2007, 02:55 PM) [snapback]443556[/snapback]</div>

I think the guy carrying the reflective sheet must have been sitting behind the driver, don't you think? :lol:

 

I've got a Jeep that I drove for a while which is on its way to the cabin for good. That's all I need it for. Towing the boat 10 miles, 5 times a year, duck hunting to haul the 6x6, and deer hunting to bring back the bounty! I'd only get about a grand if I sold it, but it runs great and this way, we can take the Prius to the cabin on 2 gallons of gas and use the jeep once up there.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wiyosaya @ May 16 2007, 12:49 PM) [snapback]443605[/snapback]</div>

Probably. I'll have to look at it again. I wasn't being very careful in my observations. The caption was obviously a joke though.

Now that I look at them again, all the captions were jokes.

Dave M.