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Whats wrong with this procedure? The HV battery is connected in series , the ECU reads in banks of 2

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by Phillip Griffith, Nov 19, 2020.

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  1. SFO

    SFO Senior Member

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    Not sure what is what, but @TMR-JWAP posted some links above.

    There is a confusing and outdated online version of the 2004 manual here : share.qclt.com - /丰田普瑞斯原厂英文手册pdf格式/Prius Service Manuals 2004/修理手册/04pruisr/05/

    Folders 2054m and 21bpm being the major DTC catchalls, but there are plenty to sift through.
     
    #61 SFO, Dec 11, 2020
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  2. Phillip Griffith

    Phillip Griffith Junior Member

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    Thanks , Im using at present the link that TMR-JWAP provided for the manuals (grandaddy as he called it) ; at present many things happening on the dash(flashing VCS, braking system and check engine) and codes looks like a wiring problem. Already checked fuses at the get go. Just got to tie together - #1 injector not working, battery not charging while in car, and wild instrument panel display and or no display but the engine started (this last time). WE HAVING FUN YET? YES WE ARE! One good thing about this is if I need a part for my 2009 very reliable Prius (changed 1 12volt battery and 1 headlight) I wont have too much work to get to the part , 2008 body parts are everywhere.
     
    #62 Phillip Griffith, Dec 12, 2020
  3. jdenenberg

    jdenenberg EE Professor

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    Straw,

    I have the full Gen2 manual, just send me a PM and I can send a link to the repair manual. Note that there are two; one for 2004-2005 and the other for 2006-2009.

    Jeffd
     
    #63 jdenenberg, Dec 12, 2020
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  4. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    grandaddy ? no no no the " MacDaddy"

    Slightly cleaned up and modified version of the Urban Dictionary definition:

    "The pimp-meister, the king, the blingest of bling-bling. "

    Service Manuals - Google Drive
     
    #64 TMR-JWAP, Dec 12, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2020
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  5. jdenenberg

    jdenenberg EE Professor

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    Is the link to the 2005-2006 version or the 2006-2009 version?
     
    #65 jdenenberg, Dec 12, 2020
  6. Phillip Griffith

    Phillip Griffith Junior Member

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    UPDATE: I went thru some of the previous codes and checked a few things ; ended up clearing all codes starting over. The only code that came up was "replace HV battery" so I'm back to the battery. I will say this : I got white smoke out of the tail pipe while the engine ran 15 seconds.
     
    #66 Phillip Griffith, Dec 13, 2020
  7. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    The wiring diagram module specifies 2006, so it should be good for 2006-2009.

    But, what's odd, is I have the zip file for 2004/2005 and 2006-2009 and both of them have the same first page on the wiring diagram module that says 2006
     
    #67 TMR-JWAP, Dec 13, 2020
  8. jdenenberg

    jdenenberg EE Professor

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    Mine does as well, I guess that the Italian source of the zip files may have packaged the 2004-2005 files wrong.
     
    #68 jdenenberg, Dec 13, 2020
  9. Phillip Griffith

    Phillip Griffith Junior Member

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    UPDATE: In the process of charging battery, had to learn the limitations of my 16x7 v 6 charger, charging to 4500 mAH to limit heat generation . Charging to 6000 mAH caused swelling of first module which subsided when cooled. Will add 1500 mAH at a lower charging amps to desired 6000 mAH. Very lengthy process. "Are we having fun yet?" "Yes we are!"
     
    #69 Phillip Griffith, Dec 16, 2020
  10. SFO

    SFO Senior Member

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    You're charging each module in the whole HV battery assembly, or clamping the module(s) outside of the assembly ?
     
    #70 SFO, Dec 16, 2020
  11. Phillip Griffith

    Phillip Griffith Junior Member

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    In the battery assembly
     
    #70 Phillip Griffith, Dec 16, 2020
  12. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    Wow!! The module swelled while it was clamped in the battery assembly. Your charging current must be really high, you should really cut that back a bit.
     
    #71 dolj, Dec 16, 2020
  13. Phillip Griffith

    Phillip Griffith Junior Member

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    I did not cut back on the 6 amp charge but I limited the total mAH thus the time length of charge 1000mAH takes 10 minutes , this will not reduce total time to get to 6000 mAH but will allow a cooling period between 4500 to 6000. I got time on my hands. lol By the way; all batteries so far have had a voltage rating of 8.55 volt at 4500 mAH recharge.
     
    #72 Phillip Griffith, Dec 16, 2020
  14. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    Good luck with that, that's a pretty hefty wallop to the module. Most people using RC chargers recommend 1 - 2 Amps max.
     
    #73 dolj, Dec 16, 2020
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  15. Phillip Griffith

    Phillip Griffith Junior Member

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    That brings a question to mind : wonder what the recharge amps are from the Prius regen system under normal driving conditions?
     
    #74 Phillip Griffith, Dec 16, 2020
  16. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    That's pretty irrelevant as that charges and discharges (60-70 Amp, sometimes more) in the 40% - 80% SoC range so those high currents are safe. Plus, the ECU monitors the battery temperature and sets the cooling fan as appropriate. If anything gets outside its safe parameters, it shut the thing down.

    Outside of that SoC, you have to be careful.
     
    #75 dolj, Dec 16, 2020
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  17. Phillip Griffith

    Phillip Griffith Junior Member

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    Not being a battery man myself; are you saying that each module is exposed to 60-70 amps each and/or the battery as a whole in series? I know it sounds dumb for me to ask but to me 6 amps doesn't seem a lot even without a temperature control fan on the module. This house is cold. brrrrrrrrr
     
    #76 Phillip Griffith, Dec 16, 2020
  18. donbright

    donbright Active Member

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    @Phillip Griffith

    you may be interested in the data i have collected from my 2007 prius, here: Vehiviz

    below is an example dataset collected over a few minutes where im running around the city about 20-40 mph and stopping alot. the battery current is almost always below ten, it only spikes briefly when accelerating or braking. (negative amps means current is flowing into the battery, corresponding to braking, positive amps means current flowing out of the battery)

    newplot(5).png
     
    #77 donbright, Dec 17, 2020
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  19. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    Yes, both because the modules are in series.
    There are no dumb questions except for the questions not asked. In your charging scenario, I'd let temperature be your guide. If you are getting hot modules you are going too hard.

    As for what happens in the car, you will notice in donbright's data in the previous post that even though the current can get really high, it is not sustained always varying and I guess this makes a difference. And again, I'll emphasize that these high currents are in the 40% to 80% SoC range and very often around 60% (the Prius' happy place). NiMH seems to like this, hence why the batteries last so long. When you are reconditioning a module you are deliberately going outside the 40% to 80% SoC range because you have to to do any good
     
    #78 dolj, Dec 17, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2020
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  20. Phillip Griffith

    Phillip Griffith Junior Member

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    @donbright Looked over the info briefly, AUESOME, got to learn that. I do love graphs. Now its not as boring as watching the clock tick (charging the modules) time not wasted. @dolj I do appreciate your info so : Let me say that I found the resistor (wire end) not properly installed into the No 1 contactor of the battery assembly ; the blade on the contactor had shifted over to the side in the recess. This last time when I used the pack the engine started but as soon as the charging begin; the system shutdown. Hence dead HV battery. Triangle of death .Code says replace HV battery. The wire connector was in very tight but not making contact to complete the resistor circuit. Do not know if it was like that from the start or I created the problem as I worked on the battery(never looked in the recess until now) Of course I corrected the blade position (in the contactor) so Im hoping that eliminates the "replace HV battery code".
     
    #79 Phillip Griffith, Dec 17, 2020
  21. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    The resistor circuit is there to limit current when the HV initially goes on line with the car. It bypasses the (+) main relay. Once the HV is online, the (+) main relay closes and the bypass opens, taking the resistor out of the circuit.
     
    #80 TMR-JWAP, Dec 17, 2020
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