What's the deal: Faster, Fatter 2010?

Motion does not mean any fuel is consumed. The engine spinning is to reduce RPM of the power-carriers within the propulsion system.

Be careful about making assumptions. After all, the Multi-Display only shows 1 electric motor... even though there are actually 2. It's one of many simplifications to help you understand. For detail, owners purchase an aftermarket add-on device like ScanGauge.

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Hello!

Why should toyota bring a new prius that has better mileage?
No other carmaker has done the (full-)hybrid job yet, that they did in 1997!
There is no mass-vehicle on the planet with a better technology. So there´s no hurry for toyota and they´ve got time to launch a perfect plug-in in 2011.

When toyota looks at the other companies I´m sure they wish they hadn´t told the world that a prius 3 is on its way before the end of the decade. So they have to launch something, but I guess 2009 is just gonna be a big kind of facelift.

kr
wogue

 

Mike,

Work on your packing. I've had the wife and two teenage daughters on 2,500+ mile roadtrips twice now with everyone packed for two weeks (which for the women in my family means three dozen changes of clothes) plus all their "stuff" plus snacks and cooler all in the back of the car. Just pull the lower cargo area cover, leave it at home, and pack the car carefully with no wasted space, like it's going on a Mars mission.

I remember Evan Fusco posts where he managed to cram three kids in three car seats in the back seat and all of the baby paraphernalia plus their normal stuff in the cargo area.

It always amazes me how much this car can hold. One of my co-workers calls it a clown car because of the space (but now that I think of it, maybe he's calling me a clown?).

 

Don't early specs suggest a more powerful engine but with better EPA #'s and lighter weight from increased use of composites?

The prototype A-BAT was revealed at NAIAS last January. Well placed rumors say it got the green light and may appear at NAIAS next year.

It's a new market niche, an HSD urban utility runabout. I'm #1 on my dealer's A-BAT list.



Toyota/Lexus/Scion Pressroom: Toyota Returns To Its Compact Truck Roots With The A-BAT Concept Vehicle

 

If that were the case, then the engine would always be "engine braking" which would really kill fuel economy. Do you have any documented sources to back up your claim?

 

with a car seat in the back, i can see getting a Pri that is say as little as 6 inches wider. it would make a lot of diff. with the 60/40 fold down backseat, the car seat is about 2 inches too wide to fit on the 40% side. that sucks... so give me 3 inches, i be happy

 

Please do some searches. This behavior has been heavily documented over the years...

The difference between engine-spin and engine-braking is based on what the valves do. Allowing free flow of air reduces drag to a minimum. Keeping them shut takes advantage of piston pressure to create a slowing effect.

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As john1701a pointed out, the ICE always spins above 42 mph (however, this does not necessarily mean that fuel is being consumed while the ICE is spinning). See 2004 New Car Features Manual, p. TH-21, second bullet point at the top of the page.

Engine braking depends upon the effective gear "ratio" between MG2 and the ICE. When Prius is in D and decelerating, the ICE effectively is in a "high" gear and provides a slight drag. When in B, the ICE provides greater drag since the effective gear ratio is a "low" gear. See the nomographic chart on p. TH-22.

 

I think the next Gen will get smaller/lighter but more powerful electric motor. The Camry has 105kW MG2 but actually lighter than Prius' MG2.

 

OK to answer your ?? one by one, sorry if this repeats other replies ( I didn't read the whole thread yet ).

Why the bigger engine? The current engine in the Prius is early 90's technology, mid 90's at the latest. It's just out of date. The newer engines are both more powerful and more fuel efficient at the same time. For those interested wikipedia has a great summary of Toyota's engines.

Here is the commercial and production reasons: Today Toyota is converting over to its 'R' family of engines which are some of the best in the world. They may be consistently the best lineup of engines from any mass market producer on the planet. The 1GR, 2GR, 1UR, 2UR, 3UR and 2ZR engines are simply the best. The 1ZR 1.6L ICE is the standard engine in the JDM Corolla and in the Corolla in other parts of the world. It's this engine, Atkinsonized, that will go into the next Gen3 Prius. It's a beast. It's 10-20% more powerful and 10-20% more fuel efficient at the same time...neat trick there Toyota.

The whole family of 'R' engines is like this. And they haven't even added the real coup de grace, in the Valvematic technology, which should add another 10% for both FE and power. These engines are stupid good.

So why not keep the mid-90s era 1.5L.? Economics and simple advancement of the technology. It makes no sense at all to keep producing one single engine for one vehicle using outdated technology. It makes tons of sense from a cost perspective to use the current engine, the 1ZR, that's being made all over the world for the Corolla and other small vehicles, Atkinsonize it and drop it in the Prius. That's highly cost effective. Same tooling, same production lines, same suppliers......lower cost! DING!!!

The bigger and wider stance I'm certain is for better stability; i.e. a wider stance on the road. If there is one area that the Prius is ???? is it's road handling. The new one should be more stable while driving. A little bit more of hip room in back wouldn't be a bad thing either. Two kids and a car seat could fit better.

But...for those wanting the ultimate in FE then there will be at least one or two other Prius', one of which should blow away all other models - even the Gen3 itself.

 

The new Gen3 will not get 71 mpg. At best it will get 55-60 mpg combined ( as opposed to the 48 mpg everyone gets now ). A 10-15% increase is a very realistic estimate. Don't believe anything else.

Now a smaller Prius A which is lighter and uses the current 1.5L might get this 60-70 mpg but it's going to be pretty basic IMO. A Yaris-Prius sedan.

 

See my earlier post about the 'R' family of engines.

Also Tideland Prius can provide some detailed reports from CA as reported on TN that the Gen10 Corolla with the 2ZR 1.8L is blowing away the old 90's technology of the prior Gen9 Corolla which also had a 1.8L engine.

The new Gen10 Corolla is 3" wider and about 300 lbs heavier but the EPA rating went UP for the 4AT. However first reports from drivers are finding the Gen10 pushing the Prius at 42-46 mpg on the Highways. This is big news.

 

Black 2006, why would you care, if there is an apparent demand for a slightly larger Prius. People come in many sizes with likes and dislikes. Would you also be so upset if Toyota made a smaller Prius?

 

Japan and UK use the Imperial gallon, which is 20% greater than the US gallon. To the extent that Toyota makes an mpg claim in Japan, it is likely that the Imperial gallon is the unit of measure.

71 miles/Imperial gallon = 59 miles/US gallon.

Another source of confusion is what testing cycle is used to determine mpg. The test cycle used in Japan yields more optimistic results than the current US EPA test cycle.

 

Well, 35.5 km/L = 83.5 miles/US gallon.
fuel consumption conversion - converting units of fuel consumption

To achieve this, the Prius is probably traveling at around 30 mph.

 

R-family of engines.
A smaller-lighter Prius
Advances in the e-motors
Advances in the battery technology

These are the answers, grasshopper.