WHATS THE BEST OIL? 0W20? GOOD?

Might as well use a bigger filter if you might consider extended oil changes. At EliseTalk.com they went through different oil filters and came up with the K&N HP-2009 and the Mobile 1 M1-209 as about the best. The Elise engine uses the slightly longer 4 cylinder Toyota filter that also fits the Prius. The 2 filters mentioned above have the same threading and same bypass valve opening pressure as the stock Prius filter. The filter case is longer and a little wider but fits on the engine mount with a little room to spare. Here is a picture of a K&N HP-2009 vs. the longer Toyota 4 cylinder filter.[attachmentid=4451]
I used the Mobile 1 filter in M1-209 size the previous oil change, at the latest oil change the oil is the cleanest I have ever seen in my 30,000 miles of Prius ownership.

Wayne

 

Well, I'll probably get sent to the Priuschat corner and never allowed out for admitting this here, but our other family vehicle is my wife’s Sequoia, powered by Toyota’s 4.7L 2UZ-FE V-8. It carries a lot, but it drinks a lot too … a whole lot. :blink: Anyway, I’ve been using the M1-209 on the "Tree" for several years (it’s an oversize on this vehicle too) with outstanding UOA results. Shoot, by attaching one of these to a Prius, you could darned near double your oil capacity! Seriously, I’ll put one on during one OCI and see if it improves my particle counts (or any other parameters). It’ll be a while though.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(FireEngineer @ Aug 11 2006, 10:49 AM) [snapback]301465[/snapback]</div>

Wow! I knew the 90915-YZZF1 works well on the Prius, but I never knew these huge HP-2009 and M1-209 filters might work. Thank you. Do you know what such large Toyota or Purolatar oil filters might fit. K&N doesn't list any Toyota applications for the HP-2009. I thought the 90915-YZZF1 is the largest Toyota filter that could physically fit the Prius.

 

Careful here guys, we may have a little info problem... Again, I'm well familiar with the M1-209, it's the Mobil version of the oversize that can be fitted to the V-8 in the Sequoia, and several other Toyota models too (I put on on a 1MZ powered V-6 Camry once, but removed it as the top was less than a half inch from the exhaust manifold -- scary close). I use this filter on our Sequoia. Of course, I work in New Orleans, 200 miles from home, and have not been back in about 10 days, so I could not look and compare directly. Last night I was skulking around a PepBoys store and compared the Prius filter with the M1-209. They are not the same base. The M1-209 has a larger diameter O-ring, and of course, larger baseplate. There may be "taller" filters that will fit the Pruis, but I don't think this one is it. Beware.

Wayne, are you positive that's a 209/2009 you've got on there, and if it is, that you've got a proper seal???

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ekpolk @ Aug 13 2006, 12:41 PM) [snapback]302563[/snapback]</div>

We're now discussing this simultaneously in another thread here[topic=22963] here [/topic], where I shared the same concern and Wayne offered some reassurance.

 

Norman:

This is not an uncommon response. The guy is well intended, but misinformed. You can switch to synthetics of the proper grade and spec much earlier than that with modern engines. Personally, I'd do it between 5k and 10k, but I've certainly heard of a lot of folks going earlier and having no problems. The "syn is thin" thing is pure myth. My personal theory on its origin is that the commonly available syns were, for a very, very long time brewed at the thin end of the allowable 30 wt range. Castrol Syntec 5w-30 is still made at only 9.7 centi-Stokes, making it just barely a 30 wt. Mobil1 for a long time was at about the same thickness, though in the last couple years, for whatever reason, they've edged it up to around 11 cSt, putting it in the "midrange" for 30s (note, there are now IIRC three "flavors" of M1 5w-30, and they're all closely around 11 cSt; M1, M1EP, new TSUV). Bottom line, if you're beyond break-in, give it not a second thought; switch and enjoy.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ekpolk @ Aug 10 2006, 04:25 PM) [snapback]301052[/snapback]</div>

It was my understanding that oil had a "shelf life" of about three to five years, so that German oil is starting to get a bit old. I don't know what effect it would have on things though. And if you have a newer Prius, has the oil specification letters changed since 2004? Is it still possible to buy the "German Castrol?"

 

There are a number of instances I've seen in UOAs, and mere anecdotal reporting, that oil last well beyond 3-5 years, particularly if the bottles remain sealed, and kept under reasonable conditions. Of course, if I see any substantial deterioration in UOA results, I will proptly re-evaluate.

You can still get current production GC, but as always, only at Autozone, and of course, it's just the 0w-30 grade. The formulation has changed some, and a couple of the "qualifications" are upgraded. UOA results remain outstanding.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Norman H. Renehan @ Aug 8 2006, 12:22 PM) [snapback]299632[/snapback]</div>

I've used Walmart's Super Tech Synthetic oils and the Super Tech Oil filters for years. I've had no problems with them and the price is about half of other quality products. I figure that if Walmart has their name on them, they must have tested them and be ready to stand behind them. This way I can use full synthetic oil for about the price of name brand regular oil. Steve

 

Supertech Syn is a well-regarded product, but it is a Group III base product. There is, of course, an almost endless debate going on regarding whether or not the G-III oils truly deserve to be called synthetics. I used to be hard over on the "no" side of this, but I've decided for myself that it's largely pointless, as long as the customer knows what they're getting and they're OK with it. G-IIIs seem to perform as well as any dino or syn in the short to mid term, while the G-IV andV products (e.g. Mobil-1, Redline, most Amsoil, etc) only have a substantial advantage in the longer term OCI environment. Especially following the Prius 5k OCI recommendation, Supertech Syn should perform very well.

The Supertech filters have been a great deal, though I think they bear watching. They are made by Champion Labs, and until very recently, all models had the very same "skeletal structure" as a Mobil-1, K&N, or Bosch Premium, but for much less (don't know about elementquality; I haven't done UOA with any). They have been switching some Supertech sizes to the new "ecore" design, in which the stout metal centertube is replaced with a plastic frame. Look down the big hole in the middle of the baseplate and see what you're getting. Although I'm sure the probability of a failure of the ecore design is pretty low, if I can have that obviously robust metal design, personally, I'll take that.

 

Mobil One 5w30 First changed at 3000 miles with Toyota Filter. Every 3000 miles for the first year. Now I change it every 2500 miles Mobil One 5w30 with the filter changed every 5000 miles (every other oil change). This makes it easy to remember and calculate! I tried a NAPA filter (the middle grade) one time with no problems but usually get the Toyota from my dealer. Change the oil myself . . . 23500 miles in 14 months on my 2005.

 

Changing oil every 2500 miles is a waste of money.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(kaptaink @ Aug 19 2006, 09:07 PM) [snapback]306042[/snapback]</div>

Go check out the hundreds of used oil analysis results at Bobistheoilguy.com, and you'll see that M1 is barely beginning to show signs of use at 2500 miles. Although I'd never recommend such an extreme use myself, there's a guy with a Porsche Cayenne who ran M1, 0w-40 in this case, for almost 20,000 miles (19k and some), and had results that were well within acceptable. C'mon let's go, it's not 1955 any more. . .

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(sub3marathonman @ Aug 17 2006, 09:56 PM) [snapback]305068[/snapback]</div>

As far as "shelf life" that depends on storage conditions. A barrel sitting outside in ambient temps from -40C to +37C, the 3-5 year might be prudent. In litre bottles in your basement it could very well be indefinite. Only a virgin oil analysis can verify that.

As far as "German" Castrol, I swung by a Canadian Tire today after work. They have new 1 litre bottles of Castrol Syntec 0W-30 that still claim Made in Germany.

 

GEEZ... I'm worn out reading all this....

For me, I change at 5,000 miles (warranty.!), use Mobil-1 5W30 (Manual) and dealer-furnished Toyota filter. Changed to Mobil-1 at 5,000 miles.

 

Coming up on my first oil change at 5K miles... Have looked at the various documentation on how to do the change and have a question: Where the heck do you go to get the replacment washer for the oil pan bolt?? I've bought plenty of filters and oil in the past but never changed the washer.... ??

Mike

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ncc1701mda @ Aug 23 2006, 08:07 AM) [snapback]308135[/snapback]</div>

You can buy it from a Toyota dealer, which might charge something like 75 cents for each soft aluminum 'crush' washer. Some dealers inlude one with each oil filter they sell. Autoparts stores will sell similar solutions.

The reason that its best to use a new washer at each change is that as you torque the drain plug it will compress the soft aluminum to fill any gaps between the plug and the oil pan. Unlike a rubber washer, the aluminum will not expand after the plug is removed. If you reuse it, it's ability to further compress to fill gaps is lessened. The advantage of aluminum over rubber or other more elastic washers is that there's no risk of the aluminum gasket-washer ripping as you torque the plug bolt. I believe that few fast lube outfits replace the washers if they look undamaged. The risk of a leak from reusing a washer appears small. Of course some shops will simply overtorque the plug to reduce leaks, but risk damaging the threads on the oil pan drain. Some use nylon or plastic washers.

If anyone knows where we can obtain bulk pricing of crush washers in quantities of 10 to 30, I'd be interested. I can't imagine that the manufacturing and distribution costs are more than a few cents for each washer.

Many users love their valves made by Fumoto and others that replace the drain plug and washer. This eliminates the need for a new washer at each oil change, but also makes the task much neater and facilitates the taking of oil samples for analysis. I prefer the old school plug because I'm obsesive about letting the hot oil drain quickly while contaminants are still suspended in the oil. (The valves will slow the oil flow.) But then this obsession of mine leads me to do crazy things like try to drain the oil right after a long drive and within seconds of stopping the engine, which is a real challenge with the Prius.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ncc1701mda @ Aug 23 2006, 07:07 AM) [snapback]308135[/snapback]</div>

Mike

Whenever I buy the filter at my Toyota dealer they throw in the washer. They even tape it to the filter so I don't forget to install it

jay

 

Jayman,
You mentioned NipponDenso Toyota filters?
I'm looking into the whole subject of filters now, and it's getting a little confusing.
I've been reading on this forum and elsewhere about filter comparisons.
Just changed my oil for the first time and used a Fram (yikes!) filter. Yes, I know now, but I didn't know a few days ago when I did the oil change. So now I'm thinking either PureOne or Toyota filters. But now I'm also learning there are different Toyota filters, (Some made in the USA, by whom? Some made in Japan, are these the better ones?). Boy is this getting complicated. I just want to settle on a GOOD filter and buy at a good price (by the case), but from where? As soon as I figure out what filter to run with, I can go outside and unscrew that mistake I recently made on my dear little Prius!
Thanks for the info.