What is Toyota's response to the Model 3?

I don't think he is saying it is good or bad, just that if the electricity goes down, so do the pumps.

That said, we don't need chargers at gas stations. Although I have seen a few, those really aren't typically good places for them.

Pretend for a second, that every morning when you started your day, your gas tank was full.
How often would you need to go get gas?

 

right, most of the discussion regards long distance traveling. i'm at half a tank with 1200 miles in a 15 mile phev. i'm sure you're aware.
if i'm going south, it's 200 miles to the garden state parkway. they have a huge rest stop and gas station. needs multiple chargers with capacity for more as bev's become more popular. and a hydro station.

 

#1 - maybe you don't realize it, but DC quick charging is NOT all about Tesla. When you also throw in the CHAdeMO DC quick chargers, your long distance map suddenly looks like THIS;

.........snip.............
um .... see above. They HAVE done it ... and are continuing to expand more & more ... weekly.
And consider that although this screen grab is weeks old - the network is still growing more than what actually exists. And while that reality check is sinking in, consider how much faster DC QC's are popping up - compared to the rate that gas stations came to be, over 115 years ago. Then you'll understand all the hand wringing isn't really necessary . . . . nope . . . . even when one considers it's only the SMALL minority that make multi hundred mile trips more than a couple times a year.

again - see above - Tesla sells adapters so one can use other networks for charging in the minority of times people make multi-hundred mile trips. As for states like Texas that lag behind - well what do you expect?!? It IS a petroleum producing state you know. Why do you think Texas is so against allowing the Tesla to even be sold in the state?

(sigh) ... ok, you're just repeating your self now.

chicken & the egg . . . . 1st - all the world ISN'T Texas .... 10's of millions MORE people choose to densely populate other states.
#2 perhaps it's a surprise to you, but yea, many of the chargers on the map above are just that ... primarily private sector funded.

more repeat - but consider those areas of places like Texas .... Arkansas ... Montana ... North Dakota that are the last on the list to get quick chargers, or MORE quick chargers, it's because there are fewer people in those areas. Next year, there'll be a whole lot more QC's ... less to complain about and yet certainly there'll still be hand wringers that aren't satisfied .... because, "I (and the other 500 people who live there) can't cross the bad lands of the Australian outback !!! " .... or the Arctic circle ... or roads to Nome Alaska. when did we loose that pioneering spirit, and in part become a nation of, "it's no good unless it works for MEEEE" .... and does so 100% of the time.

 

@hill,

Your map above definitely shows exactly what I was talking about. Still way too many holes in the network.

How do you know for certain that the blank spots will be filled in? No one really knows. It is up to the powers to be that control this whole shebang.

True, Texas is a oil state, but what about North Dakota, Iowa, and Nebraska?

Everyone has a opinion concerning this topic. I might feel differently if I lived in a area saturated with chargers. But I don't, and I am not alone.

 

North Dakota and some of the other states I mentioned are void of people compared to densely populated areas. As a fan of History, I can tell you that many a person and many a family got stranded with no gas in the early days of cars. Heck people still get stranded with no gas because stations aren't so close together that they can Coast in, when they run out. Plugins are just now taking off. All I'm saying is that it's okay if it doesn't instantly work for everybody, because that's the nature of Transportation growth.
On a side note, here's a really cool thing. People that ordered smaller 60kWh traction packs actually have larger traction packs that are software disabled. At any time, you can pay to use the additional range. Tesla doesn't advertise it, but for a coypke of the dummies that have let their pack run dry - Tesla has graciously & temporarily enabled the extra portion so that they could get to a charge station, rather than make them get a tow truck with an onboard charger - or get a truck to get him to the next charge station. Too bad you can't get gasoline over the air.

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The same can be said about Hydrogen, Hydrogen is in the early stages.

 

Not to go too much more off topic but the difference between the 2 is you can throw up a charging station for a few thousand bucks, or more if you want to power it from above with solar. The cost is exponentially higher for hydrogen & if you did spend a trillion taxpayer dollars to build it - the fuel is more expensive. You end up with a vehicle that costs as much per mile to operate as a Gen 2 Prius .... go to a newer one, or pretty much any Plugin and hydrogen shows itself for what it is - a Hands Down Loser. But that's already been dialogued to death in other threads.

 

How quaint, quick to promote one thing, and then bash another thing in the same instance.

One question I must ask you @hill, if you are so "FOR" the EV thing and electric cars, then why is it you have a Prius? I would expect you to be more like @Zythryn. At least he is practicing what he is preaching. Or am I mistaken by your one reference to your 2004 Prius that you show off in your signature?

 

So if someone promotes one "new thing" they must promote all "new things"?
Hydrogen is a step forward from gasoline, but it is a huge step backwards from BEVs and PHEVs.

I don't see why a supporter of BEVs also needs to be, in your mind, a supporter of FCVs.

No one is saying an EV would work well for you.
But they will work for a whole lot of people, including a whole bunch of Texans.

 

LOL, my whole point has always been this. The system that is needed for EV's to work for all is NOT in existence and more than likely will never be that way. In my case, sure I could go get a Tesla and charge it at home all day long. But with things the way they are, I still cannot go across Texas to Shreveport, LA and back.

As far as comparing hydrogen to electricity, there really is no comparison. They are two different things with two different outlooks. In Europe, quite a few are running on propane I believe. It might be another form of compressed gas, but it is still a alternative. I was in Italy a few years ago and the car I was riding in was fueled by it rather than gasoline.

To say that FCV is a step back is simply your opinion. I find it very interesting for a technology that is being shunned by many is being promoted by Toyota.

I will not say the a FCV nor a BEV or even a traditional ICE is the cat's meow. What I am saying though is this. If you want to change the system, you need to have the system in place for all to have access to. To promote a system in one region while ignoring other's in a different region is the same thing as discrimination.

 

Just a quick note. Most of the irritation about FCVs is the Toyota/CARB effort to get the taxpayer to pay for all the H2 infrastructure while the taxpayer is not being force to pay for most of the EV infrastructure.

 

With Toyota's new headquarters in Texas, I am sure you will be seeing the creation of new Hydrogen Stations all across Texas, and I am sure some of your neighbors will be parking next to their Prius a Mirai.

 

nothing wrong with that ... you can promote peace & bash fascism. You can promote law-abiding citizens & bash Criminal behavior. Similarly my bash against Toyota's hydrogen preference is based on their dishonesty. Tell you what, if you really want - you can find a good read on-line, titled "The hydrogen hoax" . Was written by a physicist who had to deal with hydrogen for the space program. Great for space - bad for cars - at least with present day tech. "maybe in 10yrs". That's been the mantra since the 1970's.

And yes - that's a picture of our 2004 prius, which was less expensive in
2004 than fuel cells ... the 2004 - it is roomier, & more efficient than the Mirai ... & my fuel tank didn't have to be replaced at the 10 yr mark as 10,000psi tanks have to be. Etc etc etc. Read the article. So of course i'd bash a present day vehicle, where its lobby actively takes away resources that rob value from - and could be better spent on plugin's advancement ... just because Toyota makes a great hybrid doesn't make their every decision 'best". They have lyingly published ads that dishonestly portray all plug plug-ins as needing 4 hours to kill/charge? Why aren't you concerned about toyota bashing plugins the way you're trying to scrutinize my differentiating between the efficiency of the 3 cars - hybrid - plug-in & hydrogen.
Don't get me wrong, I respect your opinion that there aren't enough Chargers in your area. You can wring your hands with the notion, "who's to say whether we'll ever get Chargers in our area?" Why wouldn't they - if you eventually get gas stations way out in the boonies, then other Tech will get there as well.

it's an oil producing state so OF COURSE headquarters would get relocated. It takes a lot of CO2 belching natural gas reformation to extract hydrogen molecules. (dry humor ahead) Maybe the next time Toyota moves its headquarters - it can go all the way to the Virginias - they still extract a bunch of coal there. That's a cheep way to reform hydrogen. Toyota plans to reform hydrogen for Japan via Australian coal .... dirty their area .... then bring the gas back to the Japanese Homeland & call hydrogen 'green' . Is that a bash ? ... no - Great plan.
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I'm planning to drive to Stillwater OK the end of August and knowing the high-speed, DC chargers might help. Once I can identify the various chargers, I'll call them to find out their status. For example, the down town charger in Huntsville is still broken. But we have a boat load of Level 3 chargers ... good around town but not so hot on a cross country.

Thanks,
Bob Wilson

 

Pure silliness.
Is Toyota discriminating because hydrogen fuel is being promoted in some parts of California but ignored in the vast majority of the country?
Any new system starts and expands as it grows.
I don't see how else you would expect it to work. Were gas stations available everywhere in the USA when gas burning cars were first manufactured? No.

90% of the infrastructure is in place for PHEVs and BEVs. And that infrastructure is growing every month to cover more and more of that last 10%.

 

didn't this thread last end 3 1/2 months ago?

 

Yup, revived by hill post #83 earlier today

EDIT: You might say that nit picking is going on that stemmed from one of my post's. Read from post #83 and you will understand...

You know me, I don't mince words. And not everyone agrees. But hey that's life

 

must of had to wait for a lot more fillin' stations.

 

It's like, "The Matrix" or "The Hunt for Red October" ... always worth re-visiting.

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Maybe they should increase the number of gas stations while they are at it. Just gave gas to a motorcycle and a truck that ran out in front of my house within the past week. Wish it were electricity instead, still a lot cheaper and depending on the charger in their car they can get up to 36 miles per hour from my L2 charger. Or plug their own EVSE into my NEMA 14-50 outlet that the L2 charger is plugged into.


Unsupervised!