What I don't like about the Prius Prime

sorry! did i leave footprints?

our first hycam had a small trunk compared to the camry we came out of, but we made do. the second version is much better but still smaller than camry. it feels voluminous compared to gen 1 though.

we would never consider prius hatch space as large, if you only load it to window height. i can't imagine what prime will hold, two small suitcases?

 

Exclusive focus on the loss of cubic-feet is very, very misleading. Refusal to provide an example is a rather blatant evade. Also, what's with the abrupt topic change? We went from comparing Prius and Prius Prime to other automaker offerings.

Last weekend, my wife and I went to the hardware store and purchased a patio set. It fit just fine in the back of the Prius PHV. There was a table, 4 chairs, and some other misc items. The same cargo in Prius Prime may be a little tighter to load, but it would still fit.

So, what's the problem?

 

it won't hold my recycling bins. they just clear the hatch in my pip.

 

Back in March, we transported a baby crib and some other misc cargo from MN to WY. That 1,500-mile round trip was no big deal. Height was a non-issue. We needed the ability to carry long & wide objects.

I will still be able to toss the bike and cooler in back too.

The annual trek to get plants in the spring will continue as well.

 

CUVs might wind up being a better answer for PHEVs on a few counts; it seems easier to fit batteries into the configuration without producing a vehicle that's sorely lacking in utility.

Conceptually I'm a big fan of Mitsubishi's Outlander PHEV, arguably the most useful PHEV you've never seen (since through an insane series of inexplicable events and decisions, the O-PHEV, now in its 2nd generation, has never been offered in the U.S.), with room for 5 plus ample cargo and a bit more AER than the Prime, though the MPG in hybrid mode isn't great (apparently ~30mpg real world, though there obviously has yet to be standardized U.S. EPA testing). But in terms of packaging, it's the CUV form factor that allows for the car to have room for batteries AND luggage.

Kia seems to be thinking along these lines with their companion to Hyundai's Ioniq, the Niro small CUV. This dedicated HEV design, unlike Ford's C-MAX conversion, delivers a flat load floor with full cargo capacity, and Kia hopes its new-gen P2 drivetrain should get very close to 50 MPG. That should be a good starting point for the PHEV, but we've yet to see just how much trunk we'll lose with that version.

 

You were asking for some real world examples of cargo in car that doesn't even have an official release date yet, or even been on a journalist test drive. A reasonable person wouldn't take it as a serious question. You can't know if that patio set would fit in a Prius Prime until you have one to pack it into.

The problem isn't what these cars can or cannot hold. It is how these obvious compromises will affect customer perception. Many car shoppers may not read articles and reviews, but they are not blind.

The hybrid sedan trunks have gotten better over the generations. Just read today that the 2017 Accord hybrid gains a whole 0.8 cu.ft. On the other hand, some due manage full folding seats. Those families that actually need the extra space in the ICE trunk are likely opting for a crossover or minivan for such trips. I think a PHEV sedan that still provides the cargo space for a trip will require a departure from what the auto companies and consumers are used too. A rear mounted engine with under floor battery.

 

Because you had already drawn a conclusion.

I wanted to know how.

 

That it loses cargo space over the gen4 Prius? It's right there in the photos.

How much is an unknown, but it isn't small enough to be something a car shopper at a dealership would miss. Which is what is important when it comes to selling the car. I have stuffed lots of stuff into my cars over the years, but most Americans don't care for hatchbacks, and can't appreciate how versatile they can be because of limited experience with them. They will see a raised cargo floor and just see the lost cargo space. Like they do with the hybrid sedans.

PS: Any Toyota dealers reading this, leave the tonneau cover off your Primes.

 

That sounds like a GREAT idea! [says the i-MiEV owner ]

 

The iMiEV has a rear mounted engine?

The skateboard battery layout is an old one amoung the EV concepts. It doesn't work for PHEV with the normal forward mounted engine because of the exhaust. Unless...we use upward exhaust pipes like a semi truck. Perhaps that can boost sales.

 

Yes, as one can see in the diagram (which might not have been there when you replied). The motor is in magenta behind/below the rear passengers, with the systems controls, BMS, etc., in the teal box right above it. The i-MiEV is rear-motor, rear-wheel-drive. When I call it "The Electric Beetle", it's not without reason.

 

I understand where you're coming from now... but it still misses the point... not the same audience.

 

parked next to a leaf today, very short cargo space.

 

Cargo space in the Leaf does not go back as far as the plug-in Prius but pretty deep and surprisingly roomy and functional. That's one of the reasons we recently upgraded my wife's car to this.

We considered the C-Max Energi but when you actually see the cargo space in person it's pretty crummy. Online photos were like what you get with fast food advertising. The real product was a bit of a disappointment.

 

height is nice, but les useful than depth. that's what bothers me about the prime. depth is fine, but the height from the deck to the lower edge of the hatch window looks to be about 12". where am i going to put my marijuana plants?

 

Good point - for those duties, a Leaf would be doubly appropriate.

 

Unless you're Mitsubishi, apparently:

 

I keep reading praise and shouts of joy that Toyota moved the HV battery beneath the seat.

I am certain that is where the battery was in my 2010 Prius?

Personally, I like Tesla's solution the best. Beneath the floor boards. Great for the center of gravity, and takes no trunk space.

 

While I'd prefer to drive EV on my longer car trips, I can somewhat wrap my enviro-friendly mind around 50+mpg that a Prius provides. I'd prefer uber-mpg on these long trips, but I'm primarily motivated by the total environmental impact of both the manufacture of the car and the annual carbon footprint. So somewhere in the math, I'd trade an all EV car with it's attendant large lithium battery for a plug-in hybrid that hits the overall sweet spot. (assuming comfort and safety are the sufficiently similar). This math will certainly change in the future if lithium-air, magnesium battery, or some nano-futuristic tech battery becomes commercially available that provides more range per kilogram. I see an analogue for Moore's Law here, just with a slower doubling time. In ten years, I'll sell whatever I've purchased to an eco-minded college student for something even better.

As for cargo room, I need very little for my city drives (just room for my laptop and at most four bags of groceries or one fewer passengers for my trip to Costco). On my long trips, I've been happily using a Thule rack system with a waterproof 17 cubic foot cargo bag that I only put on for these long trips. It reduces my mpg on my Camry hybrid by just 3mpg with the bag fully loaded yet it makes all the difference in being able to move all of my kids stuff out of their college dorm rooms (their heavy books go in the trunk). It also cinches down dramatically for when I day-trip to the beach, losing about 1mpg. Overall, it's been worth it given the much higher mileage that I get in-city with a hybrid and after five years, there's no sign of wear. This is why cargo space simply isn't all that important to me.

 

In reply to myself, I will quote myself: "Who is the market for Volt?"

That question was asked scores of times over the years for a very specific reason... to learn about audience.

Clearly, some still haven't figured out the underlying purpose of Prius Prime, despite it having been stated many times. It's to grow the market. Simply appealing to prospective Prius buyers won't achieve that. Drawing in new customers, rather than achieving sales through conquest is a terrible business plan. Yet, that's what Volt thrived on. The aspect of drawing in those shopping on the showroom floor was outright dismissed by enthusiasts. They just plain didn't care about those lost opportunities. So, GM kept on catering to them.

Toyota isn't following that same approach... since it clearly didn't work. Achieving mainstream sales still hasn't happened. Instead, they will be offering a plug-in Prius that really isn't a Prius. It's different enough to draw the attention of shopper who were just looking around and hadn't ever considered Prius a choice for them.

That ability to plug in. The distinct visual appeal. Those enticing tech features. See how some not interested in Prius would give it test-drive?

It's an audience who wasn't even looking for an EV driving experience in the first place. That's the ultimate prize. You don't expand the market by appealing to those already interesting in being green. You find a way to entice buyers away from traditional vehicles.