What I don't like about the Prius Prime

Did not see any information addressing that post #415 there.

Checkout the links in that post if interested, lots of data.

 

It sounds like the Prime isn't an option for you, given the very specific constraints of your timeline.

But I have to say, the leap from a low-AER compact PHEV to a Tesla S seems like a complete change of categories. Is there some reason you wouldn't even consider a Gen2 Volt, a car which is available right now with way more AER than the Prime will have anyway? If you regularly carry two adults in the back seat for more than short trips, I can see where the Volt would come up short, but otherwise it compares pretty favorably with the Prime, and would certainly do your commute - I'd think it at least worth a test drive. Or, if your commute is comfortably within the Prime's AER, would a Fusion Energi work? That would take care of the passenger accommodations.

You don't seem very cost sensitive, so maybe a short-term lease of one of the above would be feasible. You could then shop the options in a couple of years when the Prime and Model 3 are available, along with several other new B/P/HEV models. If it's an anti-GM/Ford thing, that's another matter - otherwise, what are your thoughts?

 

plug - When I read your post my first thought was, the Prime and the Tesla S are not horses in the same corral. If you can afford an S, I wouldn't hesitate rushing to acquire one for my stable..

My Brother-in-law took delivery of an S a month ago. It is one fantastic machine. He is a car-guy, and he loves the S. He told me he will never own another car unless it is a later model from Tesla. He gave me a ride, and it exceeded all expectations. The only word to describe the Tesla S is: Fantastic.

 

which post?

 

if only they had a car for the masses. and what would it be like at 1/3 to 1/2 the cost of their prime movers?

 

That is the plan. Tesla hasn't exactly been secretive about their goals for plug in cars.

What that next step to affordable for all BEV is like is hard to tell at this point. Depends on where battery prices, and other options, are at by then.

 

i'm sure we'll get there some day, i hope i'm around to see it.

 

You know what I don't like about the Prius Prime?

I don't have one in my garage.


My commute is 55 miles each way. I should be able to plug in during the day at work. So I am anticipating the Prime cutting my gas expenses almost in half. I would like to get the Prime for Toyota reliability.

My question is can I control when it is electric only or regular hybrid? I have a half mile of small town driving, followed by 30 miles open highway then about 20 miles stop and go rush hour then about 5 big city miles. Reverse this for the ride home. Based on my commute, 22 miles disappoints me greatly. But I think I can still benefit. I don't care about the 4 seats. When I need to carry more stuff I have a truck. Or the wifes Rav4.

A BEV would worry me due to range - whatever that range is. With the Prime, it will just keep going and going...till you need a gas station. and that's fine with me. When I can drive 400 miles or more on a battery, and recharge in 5 minutes or less just about anywhere in the country, then I'll be ready for BEV. It's scary enough driving a gas car through some of the western states where there are "no services for the next 200 miles".

 

yes, you can control it. i can control my pip for when i want hv or ev. also, some believe you will get 30+ miles in city driving.

 

Well, that or when you don't have a choice, because meeting those criteria is going to be crazy difficult. Let's run some rough numbers to see what we're talking about.

I drive an i-MiEV, one of the most efficient vehicles ever made, and it can barely manage 5 miles per kWh under good conditions, so let's consider that a nice round & realistic number. To travel 400 miles, you'd need an 80 kWh battery (that's Tesla-size, though Tesla can't get anywhere near 5 mi/kWh - but let's move on). You want to charge an 80 kWh battery in 5 minutes or less. Even at a 120 kW Tesla Supercharger, that would take 40 minutes or so, so you're going to need a) a lot more power, and b) a battery chemistry that could take that, and c) hardware that could handle the current. To put numbers to it, to charge an 80kWh battery 12 times faster than a 80 kW charger (which would take an hour-ish), you'd basically need 12 times the power, or 960 kW. Put another way, you want a charging station and a car that can charge at one megawatt, on demand. Not killing anyone or triggering a regional brownout would be highly desirable features, though I appreciate that will complicate matters .

I'll let you take that suggestion to someone who understands batteries and power grids. Make sure he's not drinking anything when you tell him.

 

Your expectations for a BEV are unreasonable and unfounded since you own a truck and a Rav4. You have no need to drive a BEV across the country because you already own vehicles that can easily make the journey.

It seems you are an ideal candidate for a BEV considering you have a place to charge at home, have only a 105 mile round trip commute, and it appears utility rates in Illinois are fairly cheap. The Power Smart Pricing program seems interesting in that you could schedule the car to charge when rates are at a minimum. The upcoming Bolt or Tesla 3 should comfortably accomplish your commute.

What would worry me more is knowing that I have to maintain an ICE with regular fluid changes, maintenance, and trips to the gas station when it's all unnecessary with a BEV.

 

Felt confused you with Zappo Blappo.

 

prius maximus speaks for a lot of drivers.

 

Absolutely they are unreasonable, I understand that. And that is my point. My belief is that until those currently unreasonable parameters can be met, BEVs will not be mainstream. Again, that's just my opinion. Sooner or later I believe they'll come up with a better battery or something to replace a battery that would meet those demands. But how long for that to happen? Who knows...

True, my truck or RAV4 can easily make a cross country trip. But That's a lot of gas. If I don't need to carry stuff, I'd rather take a Prius. (but then those seats!!!! I hear the new ones are better?)

Regarding the Bolt, or Volt... Chevy. No thanks.

Tesla 3? Not putting a grand down on a car I won't see for 4 years or so. And I'm a little nervous about their reliabililty. They're having suspension issues and -gasp- requiring owners to sign a non-disclosure agreement before they'll fix 'em. Don't know the whole story but that's what's being reported.

 

Why do you need an EV to be mainstream before you get one? You need to read beyond the hype and get down to more specifics - they are not having suspensions issues. The $1000 is fully refundable, but yes, at this time, the wait will be long, so I can see how that is not very attractive. Model S is getting more affordable, especially the used ones. Some people trade in on every semi-minor hardware upgrade offering. How about a 2nd gen leaf? Take one of the EVs for a test drive. It is hard not to get hooked.

 

I looked long and hard at the Volt but the issue is that my two boys are both over 6' 1" tall and neither one could fit in the back seat of a Volt. Thankfully, they both fit just fine in my Camry. The range of the Volt is ideal and the crash and insurance claims data are excellent given its size. I looked at a Fusion Energi because it would also fit my short-commute pattern. The main drawbacks are that the iihs insurance claims have it ranked 2nd to worst (just ahead of the Volkswagen CC) in collision claims with a rating of 145 (Toyota Prius has an even score of 100), the Ford Energi's reliability isn't quite as good as the Prius, and the Ford's non-EV gas mileage is a paltry 36mpg (EPA) on the freeway. I will be doing about 2000 miles a year of long-distance trips to see my two older kids who live 253 miles away and occasional 160 mile trips to the beach. And it's these long straight day trips where the Prius Prime or just plain Prius shine versus the Ford. If my driving pattern were a bit different, the Ford Energi would possibly fit the bill. This is where I'd have to pull out the calculator/spreadsheet and call my car insurance company to see what exactly Ford Energi's less than stellar collision claims history sets me back. To be clear, the Ford Energi has excellent crash ratings according to iihs including the tougher small overlap front crash test into a solid barrier (2015 and earlier Prius's did poorly on this test). Personally, I've experienced excellent reliability with the Toyota's that I've owned over the past 20 years. I've only owned one Ford back in 1989 and it burst into flames out of the hood and through the firewall while I was waiting for the light to change in front of a mini-mart (they're fire extinguishers were all out of juice and they got fined) so possibly I have Ford PTSD that's causing me to look long, hard, and cross-eyed.

 

Yeah, that'd probably do it for me.

But yes, understood regarding the Volt back seat - it ain't for tall guys except for dashing out of the office for lunch (and there would doubtless be a battle for shotgun on the way back). And that leaves . . . what? Once again, we are reminded that press coverage of "all the choices" out there for plugins are just a bunch of noise.

The big constraint is that you want uber-MPG on the long trips, and that rules out a lot of the options outside the Prius. But especially with PHEVs, a recurring drawback is lack of cargo room because of battery location. Doesn't that also matter for the long drives?

 

The Model S would do it for you, and there would be much rejoicing in the streets.