WE CAN'T CHANGE YOUR OIL / you have the WORLD FLUID in there...

:huh: :blink: :lol: :lol: "World Fluid" :lol: :lol:

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(paprius4030 @ Sep 29 2007, 11:19 AM) [snapback]519114[/snapback]</div>

That would be my interpretation. They can't change it because they don't have it.

Dave M.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Oct 4 2007, 10:54 AM) [snapback]521195[/snapback]</div>

This is "Just what the doctor ordered."

Thank you, Dr. Fusco!!

 

[flame suit on]

I changed my "World Fluid" at 9562 miles.

Why? Cause I wanted to get all the swirling bits of metal out from the initial break in of the PSD and reduction/ diff gears.

Unobtainable WS ATF was purchased at a local dealer for $5.20/qt x 4 qts. The two alum washers for the fill and drain cost another $1.60.

I sent in a sample to PdMA for analysis. I posted a copy at:

http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/toyota...%20oil%20tests/

PdMA flagged Fe (60ppm) and Al (30ppm) for observation, so I will take another sample (but not drain it) in another 10k miles for comparison. It cost $20 to have the analysis done.

One interesting note: the Si level was 147 ppm, almost as high as the 61000 mile sample of WS from a 2004.

Think of it as a science experiment.

[flame suit off]

 

Would the silicone come from sealants used in assembly of the transmission?

I don't think we will see the day a manufacturer denys warranty because a vehicle was over serviced.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(patsparks @ Oct 8 2007, 05:59 PM) [snapback]522883[/snapback]</div>

We were discussing this in the Prius Technical Stuff Yahoo Group. One of the limitations of this type of testing is that they cannot tell you if the elemental Si is from SiO2 (dirt) or from silicone sealant. Usually, they look for the combination of wear metals and Si and make a judgement from that.

My thinking is that if it is from the sealant, the concentration of Si will go down as the sealant ages and hardens. If it is from contamination (e.g. dirt getting past seals) then the concentration will be the same or even higher in the next 10k miles. I have another 8k to go before taking the next sample. I probably won't drain again for at least 30k miles or more depending on the results of the next sample.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MrK @ Oct 4 2007, 10:43 AM) [snapback]521189[/snapback]</div>

Drain is a 10mm allen on the bottom, fill is 24mm socket on the front side (although I found a 24mm box end wrench to work better--doesn't slip off as easily). Do not confuse the 10mm allen drain with the 24mm socket on the bottom or you'll end up draining your inverter fluid instead of your transmission.

Other than that it is as easy as an oil change, I'd suggest that you pick up two new washers (one for drain and one for the fill; part #90430-18008) when you get the WS-ATF. A number of people just re-use them, but I figure at $0.70 per, why not.

Torque values for drain/fill plugs are 29ft-lbs.

Thanks,
Shawn

 

Before my first transaxle oil change, I wanted to find out if it had done any good. So I decided to use a 'hill rolling test.' When rolling down a hill in "N" at slow speeds, less than 10-20 mph, only the tires and internal transaxle friction are holding the car back. This is a sensitive test that lets us see the effect of changing transaxle oil and tire pressure.

Find a shallow hill that is fairly long, say at least .1 to .2 miles long. It should be shallow enough that if you are in "N" and stopped, releasing the brakes lets the car just barely start to roll and pickup speed. If you can roll to a stop at the bottom, perfect! If your speed is say 10-20 mph at the bottom, good enough.

Before making a change and with the car throughly warmed up, at least 30 minutes of ordinary driving, go to the same 'start' point on the hill. Stop the car, put it in "N" and release the brakes and let the car roll down the hill. Either measure how far you roll out at the bottom or the maximum speed at a given point, always the same point. Do at least two or three hill roll tests to make sure they are reproducible.

Now have the transaxle oil changed. When you come back, after warming up the car, repeat the hill rolling test. If you are using the maximum speed test at a given point, you can use the physics formula for kinetic and potential energy to calculate the rough energy savings.

Bob Wilson

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MrK @ Oct 4 2007, 10:43 AM) [snapback]521189[/snapback]</div>

Sorry I missed your question. Work has been busy and I finally moved out of the condo into a new(er) home.

If you compare the attached photo to your car, and spend some time under it, you should be able to perform the fluid drain and refill yourself. Hobbit's method actually makes more sense, but most folks will not be comfortable with unbolting the inverter. So just stick with a regular drain and refill, though you will probably need some sort of gear oil pump.

I used the kind of pump intended for refilling outboard motor lower units. It's intended to thread onto a litre bottle - or a 4 litre jug - of outboard gear oil. The "pump" looks like a Windex style pump, and a clear plastic tube runs to the other end. It will take time and patience but you will soon have the transaxle refilled.

I'll admit I "cheated" just a bit with the transaxle fluid change, as I drove the car up onto the car ramp at my hobby farm. I built the ramp out of old railway ties, and it sure makes it easier for mokeying around under a car. It's very sturdy, with just enough headroom I can almost sit up while under the car.

I looked around a bit and found this photo - I believe taken by forum member Hobbit - that clearly illustrates the location of the drain and fill plugs for the inverter coolant drain and the transaxle fluid drain. I added red arrows to indicate the location of the drain and fill plugs. Note the inverter coolant drain plug is a regular 24 mm bolt, do not touch it.

I still believe Toyota made a major blunder by using a regular 24mm drain plug for the coolant, and the hex head drain plug for the transaxle fluid. Naturally a person will attempt the "regular" plug first, and then have a fun time trying to bleed all the air from their inverter coolant loop.

Could be worse. The front axle on my new FJ Cruiser uses hex head for drain and fill plugs. For something otherwise as easy as draining and refilling gear oil, they really went out of their way to make it difficult. Never mind the damn plugs were on so tight I really gashed the back of my hand when it finally broke free.

Hope this helps. After a difficult job I always relax with a beer(s) and some cat humor. Enjoy

 

Has anyone had issues filling the fluid on ramps?

I worry about filling to the correct level on an incline. Or is it not much of an issue?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(n8kwx @ Oct 14 2007, 07:41 PM) [snapback]525607[/snapback]</div>

Not a problem. I've filled it on a ramp and later taken an oil sample. A little oil flowed out but we're not talking about a gusher. There is not an appreciable problem filling on a ramp.

Bob Wilson

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(n8kwx @ Oct 14 2007, 05:41 PM) [snapback]525607[/snapback]</div>

I did lift up the rear of the car to get it as level as practical. The level is specified as 0 - 5 mm below the fill port, so you would slightly overfill if the front of the car is higher. I filled until there was some fluid coming back out of the fill hole, then allowed the extra to drain out into the catch pan so that the final level was even with the fill port.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(n8kwx @ Oct 14 2007, 07:41 PM) [snapback]525607[/snapback]</div>

Well, one trick to use is this:

When you drain out the fluid, use an old measuring container to determine how much you got out. I have plenty of Nalgene containers as I do a lot of industrial work. Say you determine that you got out 3.8 litres.

Just put 3.8 litres back in. Assuming the factory had the oil at the correct level, you will then get very close to the factory level. This trick also works very well for servicing automatic transmissions, especially the newer Toyota models that use the overflow plug instead of a dipstick

There is one thing I'll repeat so nobody makes an expensive boo-boo: always, ALWAYS remove the fill plug first. If for any reason the fill plug is cross threaded from the factory, or otherwise stuck, you won't have an empty case and then be stuck trying to figure out how to get oil back in

I speak from experience, happened many years ago.