warranty on PiP battery

yes, if your cars were purchased and registered in ma, you have 10/150. have you checked your warranty booklets?

 

It would be 8yr/100k if non-CARB. But Bisco has you covered, as far as I can see MA has been a CARB state since 2004 so you are gold. Are you having a prob?

 

But the question was specifically about the LiIon (EV) battery. The warranty doesn't cover its degradation:

Gradual Capacity Reduction of
Traction Battery (Lithium-ion
Battery)
Lithium-ion battery capacity (the ability to
hold a charge) gradually reduces with time
and use. This is a natural characteristic of
lithium-ion batteries. The extent at which
capacity is reduced changes drastically
depending on the environment (ambient
temperature, etc.) and usage conditions
such as how the vehicle is driven and how
the lithium-ion battery is charged.
Reduction of lithium-ion battery capacity is
NOT covered under warranty. In order to
lessen the possibility of capacity reduction,
follow the directions listed in the Owner’s
Manual under “Capacity Reduction of the
Hybrid Battery (Traction Battery).”

 

...believe the OP was asking about CARB warranty if you live in NH, which I have an interest in understanding exactly which subset of Prii qualify for CARB.

As far as Li EV miles degradation, yes that's another issue but not one I usually comment on, except to say the Li batts do not so far seem to show the same failure behavior we see on NiMH (sudden death).

 

Understood. But I wanted to point out that even with the CARB warranty, it appears Toyota has an out with respect to degradation of capacity. This would be an interesting fact-finding case, were a traction battery (the LiIon EV one) to drop to 20% of capacity during the warranty period. I'm not sure the intent of CARB is to allow weasel ways out of covering a part substantially central to meeting CARB standards.

 

Hello 2k1Toaster,

I came across your post citing this email response from Toyota Customer Experience regarding the hybrid battery warranty. I signed up for priuschat.com just to get in contact with you.

I am in that specific situation. I purchased a 2006 Prius then registered and operated it in California. More than five years later, I moved to another CARB state (Pennsylvania).

My hybrid battery failed at 143,287 in Pennsylvania. Toyota would not honor my warranty even though my car has been registered and operated in CARB state 100% of the time. Toyota stated that I had to stay in California.

I've had a long battle with Toyota over this. I traveled across the country to fight them in California small claims court and received judgement in my favor 9/12/2014.

I was arguing the point that my warranty handbook states "vehicles delivered for sale in California" are designed, built, and equipped to meet California strict emission standards. Then it states warranty for the hybrid battery is 150,000 miles or 10 years whichever comes first.

That statement in their warranty handbook in in agreement with California Law:

California Code of Regulations
Title 13. Motor Vehicles
Division 3. Air Resources Board
Chapter 1. Motor Vehicle Pollution Control Devices
Article 2. Approval of Motor Vehicle Pollution Control Devices (New Vehicles)


13 CCR 1962(c)(1) Introduction. This section 1962(c) sets forth the criteria for identifying vehicles delivered for sale in California as PZEVs.

13 CCR 1962(c)(2)(D) Extended Warranty. Extend the performance and defects warranty period set forth in sections 2037(b)(2) and 2038(b)(2) to 15 years or 150,000 miles, whichever occurs first, except that the time period is to be 10 years for a zero emission energy storage device used for traction power (such as battery, ultracapacitor, or other electric storage device).

I won the small claims case, but Toyota is appealing the judge's decision. I'm flying back across the country to court this coming Monday. Can you please forward that email from Joanne Hahn (Toyota Customer Experience) sent 03/08/2013 11:20 AM? Note: Priuschat won't let me post my email address since I'm a new member. I'll figure out how to get you my email address.

On Monday, while in court, I will ask for an explanation/clarification of the warranty? A lot of people refer moving to a non-CARB state as a grey area, but my warranty handbook states "delivered for sale in California" as the criteria.

Please send me that email from Joanne Hahn. It would really really help me out. I will post an update after I get back from court and hopefully have a good explanation of the warranty and set a precedent to help a lot of people out.

Thanks

 

wow, toyota is spending a lot more money than the cost of a battery. this must be a test case that has them worried. all the best!

 

Congratulations , I hope you win !

 

dupe

 

Andy - I am confused if this is a post or a private message to you.
EDIT: OK I see it now...funny the recent messages were missing.

This case sounds a little like a recent article in Consumer Reports where CR reported someone in NC (non-CARB) won a case by contesting the CARB warranty non-coverage in NC. That case was not Toyota and not hybrid issue per se. But it was a $5000+ repair job the guy got covered.

Regarding the PA Prius case above, PA is CARB but not extended CARB so it does not cover HV battery replacement. Interesting case, but consistent with my feelings that there are some gray areas here, and if you want to challenge you can try. The PA Prius guy above is basically saying the same thing I mentioned in my write-up below, that the 2006 warranty does not say anything about Toyota's special rules about some people being disqualified for the CARB warranty for various arcane reasons.

Since all Prii are Ca-Certified, the worse-case implication for Toyota is that all 2006 (and other model years) owners could claim that they should be covered to 10-yrs 150k miles, until such model year that Toyota got around to making the rules in the warranty booklet more clear as to what Toyota now says are their rules. A more narrow implication could be all CA 2006 Prii (and other model years) could potentially claim coverage to 150k even if they moved.

Here was my updated write-up on the subject (since this thread started):

CARB Warranty Ins-and-Outs (and In-Out-Ins) | PriusChat

 

From 2013 warranty booklet;
"Vehicles equipped with a California Certified Emission Control System that are sold, registered and operated in
California or any state that adopts California emission warranty provisions are also covered by the California
Emission Control Warranty (see page 24). Currently, Connecticut, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey,
New York, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Vermont and Washington are the other states to which the California Emission Control Warranty applies."

 

thank you.

 

Just got off phone with (helpful) AZ service manager where CA reg'd prius had battery replaced and owner was (incorrectly) charged for repair.
First question Toyota asked was "where was car reg'd". When they found out was CA they agreed to send refund.
So, this PARTICULAR car was originally CA purchased & reg'd, but theoretically, maybe I could start buying "bad battery" 100-150k Prii in AZ & import them for battery repairs.... .

 

Note this old thread is regarding PiP (plug-In Prius) in New Hampshire which I don't think we have any PiP batt failures.

Perhaps you are responding to a new thread I had recently started about battery goodwill warranties.
If you had a FORD or GM hybrid in AZ, and it had CARB certified emission sticker, yes, you could register in CA and get it fixed*. Toyota has the additional policy rules that say, since all Prii are CARB ceritified, thus it must also be purchased, registered and normally driven in the CARB state, at purchase, and then again at repair registered and normally driven in CARB state.

I have indeed asked the question if all Prii follow these rules or maybe there are internal exceptions eg; 2006. But bottom line is it is a Toyota internal ruling for each vehicle so each case is handled case by case.

*Note that most likely a FORD or GM in AZ would not be CARB Certified unless bought in CA

 

Only if these Prii were ORIGINALLY registered and operated in a CARB state.

 

Please understand that I'm only joking about the import business...especially since Toyota resolved the issue so quickly, and at NO time were any of the Toyota people anything but friendly and helpful.
I did have a brief, friendly "so, um, how could this happen" discussion w/AZ service manager. His two comments were that
a) it happened before he got there
but also that
b) Toyota has since made it easier to figure out which vehicles were under CARB warranty when the dealer puts in the VIN # (battery was replaced 9/13).
I'm just very glad that Toyota Motors didn't fuss about making things right. I'm a bit annoyed that their website seems to be rather intentionally vague about warranty coverage, so I MIGHT have dropped a line to one or two people selling Prius on craigslist letting them know that a salvage title doesn't necessarily void their 150k... .

 

DJCA -
Give us some summary details on your case: model year, miles, car age, where was it orig bought and registered (CA)? But it was fixed in AZ? Why fixed in AZ? Sounds like I might be interested as I like to capture how more complex cases are handled.

 

I have the following codes:
P0A80 - hybrid battery replacement
P3016 - bad battery cell
P0420 - Catalyst System Efficiency Below Threshold

Toyota refused to fix them because my car has a salvage title... Is it still covered for repair under CCR 1962? I emailed CARB today to find out and I'm waiting for a response.

 

Probably not.

 

if not, try running it by toyota's customer loyalty team. are you a long time customer with all service done at the dealership where you bought it?

if all else fails, replace the bad cell yourself, and move on.

how many miles on her?