Wait - Tesla braking isn't regenerative?

I'm not sure there is any benefit to be found from Pulse & Glide in any BEV.

The benefit of P&G is specific to ICE engines, especially to the older less efficient engines mated to transmissions poorly geared for efficiency. Newer better ICEs and better transmission gearing choices have been able to reclaim and incorporate most of the benefits of P&G in older vehicles. But EVs just don't have the same inherent internal loss mechanism that P&G reduces in gasoline engines, and I'm not aware of any other necessary EV loss mechanisms that point to a P&G benefit.

I won't knock gliding in itself, just the P&G combo.

 

I was merely speculating on why Tesla handles braking the way they do.
What is your argument for Tesla to have blended braking on the brake pedal?

 

Several things come to mind in advocating blended braking.

First is the idea that certain controls on a car, especially safety related controls like a brake pedal, should be very predictable in function, location and use. A valet, for instance, should not be faced with uncertainty as to the outcome when he takes his foot off the accelerator pedal. Neither should your spouse have to guess whether her car is currently configured to come to complete stops in single pedal mode or not.

Second is the use of natural resources. The Toyota design primarily uses regeneration to slow the car in direct relationship to pedal force. Brake rotors and pads are generally used only at lowest speeds, emergency stops or when the battery is fully charged. This recaptures the energy for reuse instead of burning off the energy through using the disk brakes. It's not unusual to see a Toyota hybrid with original brakes + pads still in use at 175,000 miles.

Third is the handling and control of a car that jerks when you use a control that should provide a smooth braking experience. My Gen 1 Prius was quite usable in mountain snow country simply because the design provided smooth power transmission with nary a jerk or shudder that is common with auto transmissions that upshift or downshift. Sudden changes in the power or braking can cause you to lose traction and leave you dependent on the traction control which you hope is working.

 

That's really all I care about. If I only had the one car, I could learn and adapt to all kinds of interesting methods for controlling the car. But we have multiple cars, and work requires me to operate lots of random rental cars.

So I want cars that work alike. I can handle minor variations in the controls but I'm motivated to minimize the differences. If we had a Tesla join the fleet in the driveway we'd set it for two pedal and be thankful it came with a big battery.

 

Is the Tesla brake pedal not predictable in its behavior?
When does a valet or your spouse take over driving the car while its in motion?

The only difference from Tesla is in which pedal and the direction it is moving. The slowing is still in relation to pedal force. The friction brakes are generally only used under the same conditions; emergencies, full battery, etc.

Are Teslas jerky in operation?[/quote][/QUOTE]

 

The post above is a bit garbled, so let me make it brief. The pedals are not predictable when you can change the functioning by fiddling with the paddles. The valet takes over the car as soon as you hand him/her the keys and he gives you the claim check. It's rather dumb to suggest that it's in motion when you change drivers, but that makes for a nice red herring.

If the Tesla uses brakes exactly like the Toyota, why do they need such frequent brake jobs and adjustments? And how could it be using the same regeneration profile when all these posts are talking about turning off regen or turning it to max, etc?

Yes, Teslas can be jerky in operation. A post in this thread talks of watching the passenger's pitch forward/back in reaction to change of vehicle speed. My personal experience was limited to being thrown around in a Model S by an egomaniac who just had to show off what he bought with his IPO profits. He drove poorly. I was not really impressed.

 

isn't that the very pigeon hole that you were hoping for?

 

I still remember:

• 2003 braking jerk in last 2-3 mph when coming to a stop.
• 2010 brake pause that was corrected by a Toyota recall and service center, software update.

So far, my 2019 Tesla Model 3 has been flawless. The only challenge is when to let off the accelerator in one pedal driving to come to a stop at a traffic control light or sign.

Bob Wilson

 

For those of us who are very susceptible to motion sickness, does this mean that certain poor drivers will be even worse for us riding as a passenger in a Tesla than in a regular car?

Both jerky steering, typically worse with drivers who frequently cruise with just one hand on the wheel, and jerky speeds, exacerbate my problems. A high speed slalom through windy twisty river or mountain roads is likely to make me leave a very unpleasant 'gift'. I can't do most carnival rides.

 

It sounds as if you were in a performance version of a Model 3?
The Model 3 is a sportier vehicle. As such, the suspension is ‘tighter’ than the Prius (or at least Pre Gen5).
I did not notice a rough ride in the RWD Model 3 I owned, I did have the smaller OEM wheels.

As for the ‘go’ pedal smoothness, I have never driven a smoother car. No jerkiness unless you tried.
That said, because there is so much power available, it is more sensitive.
If you press the go pedal halfway in both a Prius (pre gen5) and a Model 3 the Model 3 will have more acceleration.

If you use a genial press, it is incredibly smooth.

 

There's "chill mode" on Tesla's for those with overly delicate constitutions.
Choices - they're a good thing.
.

 

Well you certainly seem to be an expert on those things.

I want my car to work like my horse does.
Spoken commands, knee pressure, a pat on the neck.............

THIS DISCUSSION is stupid and counter-productive.