VW Jetta GL TDI vs. Toyota Prius in new Popular Mechanics

Trains have been using diesel-electric hybrid for years.

Also, did you know the Queen Mary 2 is a (sort of)hybrid? She uses diesel motors to generate electricity which then power electric motors to drive the propellers. She also has 2 gas turbines to generate extra power when the top speed is required. One advantage od this is that there are no propeller shafts so more space for other things, and the motors can be placed "out of the way" Additionally, 2 of the 4 props are in pods which can be rotated to make the ship more manuverable.

 

Re: VW Jetta GL TDI vs. Toyota Prius in new Popular Mechanic

Apparently you have not been behind a biodiesel vehicle burning the rendering plant version of the fuel - it would make you want to hurl your McDeath fries. ukeright:

Hmmmm, I can see the headlines now:

Biodiesel’s Unintended Benefit: Reduced Coronary Heart Disease in American Cities Which Use the Animal Based Variant of Biodiesel Fuel! Health Experts stumped.

In a Totally Unrelated Story: McDonald’s Stock Plummets to a New 15 Year Low.


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I think most modern ships are that way. The Carnival Triumph was. OT, it was neat to see her use her side thrusters to move sideways away from the pier in Jamaica.

 

The original hybrid cars 100 years ago worked the same - generate electricity some how, use it to run electric motors.

How does this preclude prop shafts?? Unless we are talking the huge equivilent of a Sail Drive. Looks kind of like an outboard but the engine is on the inside of the hull and the lower unit bolts up through the hull from the outside.

 

Yup -- as well as diesel/hybrid busses.

But some of the articles I read indicated that getting one in a passenger car would be more of an engineering trick. I'm unclear why (or I've forgotten) -- size? Reliability? Nt sure.

 

True! GM had a 50 year head start on building hybrid vehicles; their automotive division either didn't know or didn't care.

 

Re: VW Jetta GL TDI vs. Toyota Prius in new Popular Mechanic

A lot of the new luxury liners are going to or have gone to "pod" style external electric motors with the propeller bolted directly to the motor shaft.

The primary advantage is the reduction in noise and vibration. Apparently, the long propeller shafts that connect the motors to the props are a major source of vibration.

Despite a thick steel shaft 2-3 ft in diameter, they are also remarkably easy to bend. That large unbalance will quickly destroy a diesel motor.

Had a neighbor with a 2002 VW Jetta TDI 5spd. Yes, it was made in Brazil. Horribly unreliable, he traded to a Pontiac minivan, losing a huge amount of money on the trade, and claims much better reliability.

How sad!

A recent issue of Consumer Reports tested luxury cars from Germany (Mercedes, BMW) and Lexus. They brought up the issue of reliability and concluded that once renowned reliable cars have tried to use their past to sell quality, while actually being horribly unreliable.

If my neighbor with his cursed BMW and "i-drive" is any indication, I would have to agree.

 

Re: VW Jetta GL TDI vs. Toyota Prius in new Popular Mechanic

Easy on the iDrive there sparky.

I agree, the *implementation* of it, as it currently stands, is awful. However, the technology behind it is incredible. I've chatted with the Siemens guys who wrote it, and its' very nice. It's all written in Java and realtively easy to extend, unlike our cars which is very closed and not at all extendable.

 

Re: VW Jetta GL TDI vs. Toyota Prius in new Popular Mechanic

These are examples of diesel-electric drives. To be a hybrid there needs to be a battery to store excess energy and draw it down later, I remember reading somewhere that D-E locomotives are never shut off out side of the repair barns as there is no way to restart them on board. Idling diesels use remarkably little fuel as ther is no pumping losses. Peace, Ammiel

 

Re: VW Jetta GL TDI vs. Toyota Prius in new Popular Mechanic

I wasn't reporting on how hard it is to use. The one my neighbor has is always on the fritz, completely fubar'd. He frequently bums a ride off me to work or to the BMW shop.

Ok, he's a nice fellow and means well. He really likes my Prius, and maybe he might buy one and mine won't be all lonely in the heated underground parking.

Consumer Reports also reported on how unreliable the i-drive thing in general, and BMW's in particular, have become. Maybe Java has something to do with it, if I have to do an embedded RTOS, I use VxWorks or Neutrino and C++.

"Sparky"

 

Re: VW Jetta GL TDI vs. Toyota Prius in new Popular Mechanic

Heretic. C++ is great and all, but if you want ease of 3rd party integration, java is the way.

 

lots of examples of diesel-electric hybrids, and money is supposedly the limiting factor...

here are three examples from a trio of unknown car manufacturers

http://priuschat.com/forums/album_pic.php?pic_id=799

for complete details of this story, PM me...

or go to the Chicago Tribune's online edition (www.chicagotribune.com) and look for the article entitled

Super Car: The tanking of an American Dream

this article will provide good insight as to why Toyota will become #1 more by default of the big three than their ability to make cars

 

you aint kidding, i had to edit the post as an afterthought and you posted in the meantime, but what i added pretty much echos your statement.

 

i strongly feel that the big 3 are being controlled by oil interests and not what should be done to preserve our environment.

most of the exec's that make the decisions only need to survive 5-15 years, get their fat pensions, exercise their stock options and spend the rest of their lives in Palm Springs or whatever. so they are doing what they need to do to survive for the short term.

why do you think the #1 selling point for the big 3 is the size of the rebate?

Toyota's #1 selling point is quality... it definitely aint the bargain you get since there isnt any. they charge top dollar for the Prius and still cant make em fast enough.

a very telling statistic

average rebate for big 3 autos in 2004 $6500
average rebate for all Toyotas $529

well you can argue all kinds of points but that point you can take straight to the bank.

 

imo the cars of the big 3 aren't worth what they sell it for. so even with rebates... they probably don't lose any money

 

Re: VW Jetta GL TDI vs. Toyota Prius in new Popular Mechanic

I don't mess with buggy, cheap consumer gadgets, almost all of my work is in industrial process control with embedded RTOS. I also don't care about "ease of 3rd party integration" as the tools I work with provide enough functionality.

You pick a proven communication protocol, such as DeviceNet, ControlNet, Foundation FieldBus, or Industrial Ethernet, and make sure the device in the field (Sensor like position, RTD, pressure, ORP, etc) is reliable, with plenty of early warning before catastrophic failure.

I want rock-solid reliability. If you're messing with sodium hydroxide, chlorine, or other nasty things, the last thing you want to deal with is some deranged OS running wild. I want a system that will do watchdog checks and provide nice Hot Restart groups if something DOES abend.

According to Consumer Reports, the BMW systems, in particular the i-drive, have much less than stellar reliability. I find it quite odd that a luxury mark like Lexus can package all the latest features into a very reliable car, but the German companies (BMW, DC, VW, etc) cannot.

I personally don't trust "ease of 3rd party integration." The first problem with CMM +5 is the huge cost - and time - involved in all that prototyping and testing, to ensure delivery of an absolutely reliable software product.

It stands to reason that frequent "updates" have not been thoroughly tested and you will encounter field problems that quick iteration testing failed to uncover.

If it's a car, it rolls to a stop and you call Roadside Assistance. If it's a chlorine cell, you kill a lot of innocent folks.

It's a very sobering reminder to me of reliability issues when I check up on software packages that I wrote in the late 80's or early 90's that have run 24/7 without fail, then go back to my home and encounter "PFN_LIST_CORRUPT" on Windows XP Pro.