Featured VW ID.4 with 3 years free charging

Darn:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.greentechmedia.com/amp/article/how-californias-shift-from-natural-gas-to-solar-is-playing-a-role-in-rolling-blackouts

moto g(7) power ?

 

Easiest solution is to light up the burners...

And if going green is causing rolling blackouts that last happened 19 years ago, I don't want it....

moto g(7) power ?

 

Excited to see this play out in the market place. Bring on the BEVs.

 

According to who?

The EPA breaks size classes down by interior volume. The Mirai is a subcompact. Compare Fuel Cell Vehicles The Model S is a large car, and the Model 3 a midsize. Fueleconomy.gov's power search doesn't give hydrogen as a fuel choice, so we can't know what market class they might put the Mirai into, but no Toyota is in the luxury or upscale sedan class.

Edmunds and Car and Driver both found the Mirai's interior lacking for the car's price.
2020 Toyota Mirai Prices, Reviews, and Pictures | Edmunds
2020 Toyota Mirai Review, Pricing, and Specs

What exactly is that?
That BEVs won't work for everyone. That would be obvious to anyone looking into buying one. That in the major BEV markets, and most of the US, the BEV will result in less emissions than a majority of cars with an ICE.

I see the problem here. You see all fossil fuels as the same, when they aren't.

Coal is the worse. The inefficient designs of the steam plants means more coal needs to be burned per unit of electricity produced. This is true of the new, efficient designs China is building. In addition to the higher carbon emissions, there are the other emissions. Mercury and other heavy metals going into the air aren't a concern with the other fossil fuels. There is also radioactive isotopes that exposes the public to more radiation than a nuclear plant. We level mountains to dig it up, and are left with tons of ash laced with the toxic compounds too heavy to get up the smokestack.

Petroleum and its derivatives has a minor role in US power generation. A gasoline car will emit more pollution, including particles, than if it was converted to CNG.

Natural gas is the cleanest of the lot. The closed combined turbines that are being built are more thermally efficient than any engine in a car. Some even rival the efficiency of a PEM fuel cell. So less carbon emitted than the others for the same amount of electricity. Add cogen for heat or steam, and the plants efficient can be over 95%. They also have quick start up times, and can be shut down when not needed. With steam plants, shutting down costs more, and can break things. So they continually run, even when their power production could be covered by a renewable.

Natural gas is mostly methane, so plants built today can switch to biogas or renewable methane without modification. They even handle a portion of hydrogen mixed in. Methane is a simple compound, which is why it burns cleaner than the other fossil fuels with longer carbon chains.

Planning for industrial power generation takes years. Cheap wind power and batteries for grid storage weren't a thing very long ago. At the time of planning, natural gas plants were the most effective clean option for the cost.

How many people look into where their electricity comes from when they put in air conditioning? Then some people buying BEVs don't care about going green. They want the performance, or the lower cost. Either way, the BEV is cleaner than the car they would have gotten instead.

No new car is affordable to someone losing a job. A new BEV can have the same total cost of ownership as an ICE car; comes down to fuel costs and maintenance.

My understanding is that the power company was planning to shut down coal plants, as they were old, and got too costly to keep running. The plans included new power generation, so net job loss wasn't an issue. Without asking, the state government gave them a hand out for political reasons aligning with party lines and the President.

Even if California wasn't stubborn and allowed the building pf NG plants, BEVs would still emit less carbon and other emissions than any hybrid available. Plus, their emissions wouldn't be in population centers whose geography traps locally produced pollution.

Then there is the fact that as ICE cars age, they pollute more. Even if kept in working order. BEVs will get cleaner as cleaner power sources come on line.

Without any more details on the car, I think we already covered the main points. Though maybe not this.

As an independent charging network that needs to make a profit, Electrify America's fees could mean no savings, or even cost more, for charging than for fueling a gasoline car. With home charging being the norm, that isn't an issue for most BEV owners, as EA would only be used on long trips. The free 'fuel' card with the ID4 could entice those without regular access to home charging to try a BEV though.

 

Wrong again. It’s stated on many sites it’s a midsize car. Have you been inside one?
“The Toyota Mirai is a mid-size hydrogen fuel cell vehicle (FCV) manufactured by Toyota, and represents one of the first FCV automobiles to be mass produced and ...”

 

I could understand that with a 80 mile range it’s a golf cart.

 

Turns out the Echo is actually a compact. Same with the Yaris; it and Mirai are on the border between the classes. Depending on how the cargo and passenger space were added and rounded, it could have gone the other way.

For impression, it matters what the actual measurements are. The Mirai is wider and taller than those cars, and much of the lost space over a Camry is in that rear middle hump. So it could seem bigger in comparison to real subcompacts.

How do they define midsize? What is the cut off between it and compact or large car? Just eyeballed it?

Several cars fall into a bigger or smaller EPA class that what people would expect from seeing the car. My Sonic hatchback was Chevy's subcompact offering. The EPA size was midsize.

But let's call the Mirai midsize, as that is how big it is on the outside, and what people would guess. Your comparison to the Model S was still wrong. It is a size larger than midsize. The Model 3 is Tesla's midsize car, and it also about the same price as the Mirai.

 

Link? based on interior volume rather than some ad?
here's what every web page available shows;



if the new one is a 5 seater - & that's the going buz - it may move up in size to compact class - skruntching a 5th seat in there.

.

 

The Mirai gen 1 we looked at isn't that big. That's why we didn't trade the Panamera for it. Can't fold down the rear seats and my son plays the cello, so even though he'd have a fueling station on campus and the car was basically free because of the fueling card, well, would you give up a Porsche for one?

As a member of the green club who got household solar enough to just about break even net metering through the year, I understand California's goal of going green. I AM mad that there are rolling blackouts as a result of trying to achieve this goal. That hefty $36k price tag after incentives didn't come with a disclaimer that said oh by the way there will be blackouts in the future. It did not affect our house, no, but I pitty all those people who had to suffer through it. 19 years since the last rolling blackouts, for the progress of going green? I understand when my senile mom leaves the chandelier light on and leaves the room I go and immediately turn it off. But keep the burners burning I don't want an ID.4 or any other EV even though I could live with it. Going green isn't an excuse for that. (Sometimes in a football game you have to move the ball backwards for an overall gain). So as you say burning natural gas IS cleaner. Then why?

I can't recall 100% but I believe Electrify America is on the expensive side relatively. Something about an initial connection fee of $3 or something. It's across the Albertson's parking lot near here but I just don't charge there because of it, and I don't see anyone else using it when I'm there. That they give it free is an incentive, but the sticker price is still higher than available ICE SUV. Cheapest EV as far as I know is a smart fortwo, which is no longer available. Now I don't want to go into all the troubles people had with the C451 version which the battery would just brick, and repair cost is Mercedes high. 80 mi range and 3.3 kW charger, no wonder if didn't survive in the market. But you get what you pay for. Three years does line up well with leases so combined might be a win for people to take the plunge and experiment. I would still be irritated by the charging time when looking at taking a trip.

EDIT-. The fact that Electrify America is expensive is a good thing for potential ID.4 owners. I can almost guarantee you it will be open for you to charge if you do get one. One downside to EVs occurs when you arrive at your parking only to find all the charging stations full...

Here's a list of 10 SUVs that are sub $25k. And you're trying to say an EV SUV is cheaper?

10 Cheapest SUVs of 2020 | CARFAX

Even after $10k deduction that is still at least $5k in gas, with no range anxiety nor waiting to charge. Ride a bike to work if you're feeling guilty, ride share, etc. For me no thank you.

moto g(7) power ?

 

You must of spent some time finding a webpage that states incorrect information. Midsize not compact.
Toyota Mirai

Overview
Manufacturer Toyota
Production 2014–present
Body and chassis
Class Mid-size luxury car[1]
Body style 4-door sedan

 

That came from wikipedia, so it must be true.

Back to reality, EPA makes the rules, however:


Compare Fuel Cell Vehicles
(as Trollbait already posted above)

 

Mirai specs.
Length 4,890 mm (193″)
Width 1,816 mm (71″)
Height 1,534 mm (60″)
Wheelbase 2,779 mm (109″)
Weight 1,848 kg (4,074 lb)

Tesla Model S
length (196” )
width (86.2” )
height (56.9” )
wheelbase (116.5” )
weight 4,941 lb

 

Jesse raises his hand frantically in class for the teacher to call on him:

Third prize: three ID.4s

moto g(7) power ?

 

Jesse goes home and shows his sister his prize and and she starts to cry, and askes why didn’t you win a Tesla? Jessie replies, they are all being charged at the super chargers.

 

Few seconds to plug in, not few seconds to charge. And to think you called me "wrong".

Please don't misadvertise....

moto g(7) power ?

 

You are still incorrect and still misdirect. Didn't say it took the BEV a few seconds to charge but that the experience to fill took a few seconds as compared to many minutes for ICE.

The conversation was about the time the user spent refueling/recharging and getting to a place to refuel/recharge. So was appropriately referring to the fact that effectively it took a few seconds for the BEV to fill up as this was done the night before. Try again.