Featured VW ID.4 with 3 years free charging

Well, apart from others PV scenarios, there is one other point of Solar savings for daytime charging. Here on (SCE) Southern California Edison - they require SOME of their taxes on the meter ONLY if the meter is turning forward - but don't deduct those taxes back when the meter runs backwards. Our Tesla high power wall charger can charge to an excess of 19kW's. We usually charge at only 1.6kw - so that our meter still runs in reverse during the day, even though we are charging. If we were charging at 7 or 10 or 15kW's .... SCE gets more tax. Sure, it may only amount to a dollar or 2, but before long, it becomes real money. In short, you need an Actuarial PhD in order to keep track of the convoluted pay schemes they dream up.
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I'm not going to blame SCE for any taxes that CA requires of them. (We're SCE also). I usually immediately ignore those charges as long as they aren't at a car dealership where they inflate them to earn more money. SCE is a company that has to charge tax due to local and state ordinances. I don't know about you but when we put solar up we did not concurrently apply for a business license. As far as I know that means our solar production is not considered a business entity and not required to charge tax to pay the state. That's where the discrepancy lies. If SCE is skimming extra from that line I wouldn't know actually.

The bottom right corner # is the percentage of Non-renewable sources and unspecified whatever that means for 2019. 34.23% of the total for the state is Natural gas. Enough said...

moto g(7) power ?

 

Just curious, why post this stuff? It's still completely wrong and the data you posted says the opposite of what you claim. Every year CA shows a decrease in use of carbon based fuel to produce electricity and an increase in use of renewable electricity.

Michael Nyberg works for the California Energy Commission and writes our state annual report each year. You posted part of his definitive report which is in complete disagreement with your post:
2019 Total System Electric Generation

Compare this to 2018 and every year before, then come back and tell us what you found.

Up is the new down? How is pointing out errors of distraction a distraction?

This is all far tangential stuff, not sure who you are replying to or where you are going.

More sleight of hand, as above renewables keep growing and fossil fuel based shrinks. The percent you point out includes large hydro and nuclear. In 2019, fossil fuel based shrank to ~37% and continues to shrink each year.

 

All within the halls of Priuschat, here is a detailed summary:

California Electrical Grid Sources | PriusChat

 

Someone posted that I was putting pollution into the air driving my ICE, so I decided to investigate if buying the ID.4 would change that output, by looking to see where the extra electricity (vs gas) would be produced....

moto g(7) power ?

 

The link in the first post says something about requiring a subscription. I didn't want to deal with that on my phone so:

2019 Total System Electric Generation

So I buy an ID.4, do the California utilities automatically put up more solar so 30+% of the electricity it uses is solar/green, or do they increase burning fossil fuels to meet that need. (I just visited my cousin to swap books for my son's Pre-Calc class). Rhetorically speaking I live in an apartment.

moto g(7) power ?

 

Incorrect again, you just reposted my identical link.

 

Wrong numbers again. As the link you reposted above, in 2019 only 37% CA electricity use was from fossil fuels and still shrinking.

Now to answer the question, yes California will continue to retire fossil fuels (and even our last nuclear plant) if you buy an ID.4 or other BEV. You will cause them to accelerate their retirement of fossil fuels to meet that need.

You could watch CAISO meticulously and try to charge only when grid supply is least green and in that worst case scenario you would still decrease both pollution and your carbon footprint compared to driving an ICE.

The sun may not shine at night, but the wind blows and hydroelectric picks up slack when needed. Wind total generation increases long term as well and we remain happy to import that when needed. More and more grid batteries are also coming online every year. It just gets better and better each year.

 

The problem with BEVs is that it is implicitly a requirement that you own your own house, maybe with a garage, to charge the BEV. For those of us renting apartments or doing a houseshare, that is right out. At best an extension cable with 120v is available. And you'd have to check with your landlord, especially if you are splitting the energy bill with roommates.

 

I accidentally reposted what you posted. I'm incorrect that the first post in that thread when clicked on says subscription needed? If I'm incorrect then how about you? You didn't mention which post to look at... It's the same data you posted so we're both incorrect? IF CA was 100% green then we would be going green by using BEVs, but if not buying one would just burn fossil fuels as I don't think solar grows on trees. In the overall picture you're correct, but my impact for the immediate future if I buy one is to use more carbon fuel. So I'm to be ashamed of driving my ICE knowing this?

moto g(7) power ?

 

You said it required a subscription, it does not. CA does not have a subscription model.

Still no - the data shows your immediate impact would be to use less carbon fuel if you change to a BEV.

 

Certainly easier with owning or renting a house or condo. For perspective, only 17 percent of Americans live in an apartment or condo (https://www.builderonline.com/money/economics/80-percent-of-americans-prefer-single-family-homeownership_o). Of this, many condos have a garage, so the problem is much smaller than suggested.

For the small percent who live in an apartment it is more of a challenge but doable and getting easier over time. More apartments are being built with L2 charging (such as around here) and many are being retrofitted as building codes evolve.

For those who like n=1 cases, I have met at least one person who lives in an apartment and supercharges his Model 3 nearby. That was my concern as well, but he told me it costs him no time as the supercharger is immediately off his usual routes and he does a lot of work on his laptop.

 

You brought up the cost of hauling around the weight of discharged battery. I was pointing out that there are other costs in regards to a discharged gas tank. Matter doesn't just disappear.

But yeah, you are putting pollution into the air with your ICE. With California's average grid mix, the Prius v could emit 3 times the amount of CO2 as a plug in. Since CO2 emissions are a direct result of the amount of fuel being burned, you burn more fossil fuels with your car.

With only part of the electricity being made by sources that produce air pollution(your app didn't account for large hydro and nuclear), the plug in will have lower levels of other emissions. Plus, it is easier to monitor a few power plants than millions and of cars for compliance, and the plants emissions can be outside of population centers.

In terms of other air emissions from power plants, coal is the worse. Despite roll backs in regulations, the amount coal contributes to the US grid has been dropping. New fossil fuel plants going in are natural gas. That burns cleaner than gasoline before we get into the differences of 100 ton turbines in power plants plant and the piston engine in a car.

Rheotorically speaking, you can have solar, house battery, and live just a block from work. BEVs aren't going to work for everyone today, nor will they in the near future. They do work for a large number today. We can educate them, and hopefully get them into a plug-in, while addressing the infrastructure and other issues for those that can't plug in.

Right now, night time charging will likely result in using more natural gas, though nuclear plants can work at higher levels during the night with plug-ins charging. That can change as utilities invest in grid storage for excess periods of sun and wind.

It sucks if you want a plug in, but your living arrangement won't work with charging. Places are moving to address the issue. It'll take time, but is easier and cheaper than other proposals.

Meanwhile, there are a lot of households that could have a plug in work for at least one car now, that don't have any.

 

By the book 7 out of 10 “people “ (not dwellings) have access to electricity they (or someone in their household) payS for
this corresponds Closely to the percentage of people who live in (rent, lease or otherwise) A single family dwelling.

So about 30% could have significant inconvenience at accessing charging infrastructure not counting the number of single family homes that lack external outlets (which is many more than you would expect as Ive found personally)

That said I’ve owned a BEV far longer than most and never lived in a single family dwelling with external electric outlets, yet still found ways to charge in the least BEV friendly state due to reasonable landlords and later on work permissions.

 

Statewide and with northwest grid imports we increase hydroelectric substantially as well, particularly in the early evening when the sun sets and demand is highest.

Have seen slightly different numbers on my end. What is the source here?

Here is the most recent definitive data I could find, a bit hard to tease out all the answers, but the ACS:
https://data.census.gov/cedsci/table?d=ACS%205-Year%20Estimates%20Data%20Profiles&tid=ACSDP5Y2018.DP04

 

2017 data shows 33.67% of electricity was produced using natural gas. '18 and '19 are up to 34.91% and 34.23%. So much for a downward trend...

moto g(7) power ?

 

My point was not the charging infrastructure, but not being able to add solar plus battery back up for a truly green experience...

For accuracy Wisconsin quick search 8% from renewable sources in 2019. So you went from 100% fossil fuel to 92%. Hmmm. Was it worth it?


moto g(7) power ?

 

The real issue is not the percentage of condo owners, it the percentage of Association owners. There are 351,000 HOAs currently operating in the United States. 40 million housing units are subject to HOAs.With an Association comes Governing Documents that must be strictly adhered too. Within these documents are Architectural rules. An Association cannot restrict one from installing a charger but they can implement policy of how and where a charger can be installed. Also the Installation cost and required insurance coverage can make the prospects of installing a charger more expensive than one would think. Also, once you sell your unit any exterior charging stations may need to be removed at the owners expense. So BEV is not the best option for all.

 

@Trollbait The battery expends electrons to flow current, but those electrons though miniscule in weight flow back into the battery. The battery weighs just as much dead as it does fully charged. A full tank by comparison is much heavier than an empty one. But here, I'll concede a BEV is more efficient.

moto g(7) power ?