VW Faces $17B Fine for Emissions Scam

There is a chain selling straight, second gen biodiesel in California. The higher fuel price probably has done more to sales than VW's cheating here.

With the requirement for low sulfur bunker fuel for shipping, we might see an increase in all prices.

 

'Dieselgate': SEC says Volkswagen perpetrated fraud, lied to investors

Men charged with dirty-diesel VW, Audi thefts from Pontiac Silverdome - Autoblog
About 61 vehicles disappeared from the lot in 2017

 

A nice summary: Dirty lies: how the car industry hid the truth about diesel emissions | Environment | The Guardian

Bob Wilson

 

What I would like to know is have other diesels or even non-diesel vehicles been tested in real world driving vs. EPA tests? Something tells me that there may be other failures lurking out there. Maybe not as deliberate as VW's, but still, we do not really subject other vehicles to a similar test. Or do we? I honestly am not sure. If so, I'd like to see a Toyota Camry, for example (just choosing a very popular non-diesel car) be subjected to a test where it's driven (and I quote from the article) "through cities, along highways and into the mountains, using equipment that tests emissions straight from the cars’ exhausts." I wonder what would be the results. How about semi-trailer tractors? Are those tested in real-world conditions? I am pretty certain there is much more pollution going on in the trucking industry than (diesel) passenger cars. Just a hunch, of course.

Anyway, I get that VW has made a horrible mistake and ruined its reputation with the consumers, but are they the only ones in the industry? If we uncovered one, shouldn't we be looking for others? I mean our clean air is at stake here!

 

VW has brand new 2017 Dubs sitting on there lots. 10k off the sticker on a CC without even starting the negotiations.

 

no - VW actually didn't make a mistake. A mistake is something you do out of negligence ... accidentally or willful - wanton stupidity. VW's action was volitional .... deliberate. It's Criminal.
Big difference. But yea .... criminals often do call their crimes a 'mistake'. Lacking moral character, they think their mistake was getting caught.
.

 

Okay, granted, willful decision to cheat. It's a mistake in judgement or hubris ("we're too smart to get caught"). My point is not semantics, my point is:

Are other manufacturers getting away with the same thing?!

Do we know? Do we care? Or are we satiated with seeing one manufacturer being slaughtered? As much hoopla as this VW affair deservedly received, we are still not seeing the elephant in the room. Corporations get away with murder. Every day. Criminal acts against humanity. Are we going to look into this as a society or just be happy with VW's blood? Is Toyota getting away with a similar thing? Is GM, Ford, Fiat/Chr, etc? Don't we want to know?! I mean this seems like it bothers a lot of people a lot! And yet, no other vehicle manufacturer is subjected to the same rigors of investigations... Why VW? Why not BMW, Mercedes, Cummins, Ford and many other diesel engine manufacturers?

 

Still talking about these crappy cars? Let's talk Yugos...I'm bored.

 

Given the billions VW is losing in fines and sales...I'm guessing that they or others have paid 3rd parties to investigate other cars to see if they are also cheating. If it was revealed that cheating was widespread then VW wouldn't look as bad to consumers.

CARB Shows Test Equipment That Found VW Diesel Defeat Device (Video)

Mike

 

Evidence would indicate they are not.
The VW scandal raised awareness and increased scrutiny.
Volkswagen emissions scandal - Wikipedia

There are a number of reasons the hammer has come down so hard on VW.
1. They were the most blatant and criminal example, where they had engineered their cars to specifically run differently under testing, than any other time.
2. VW is also the biggest offender in terms of numbers of vehicles.

 

Maybe
Daimler Succumbs to Diesel Emissions Scandal, Recalls 3 Million Cars | Fortune

You thought Dieselgate was over? It’s not. - The Verge

.

 

I thought it was pretty well established that VW's real crime was to make use of the cheat feature in the Bosch EDC-17 ECU, same as Daimler, Fiat & GM.

That said, I still think there's a lot to the story that lots of people are still trying to hide.

 

The study that caught VW was far from the only one run by the ICCT. I recall one comparing real world NOx emissions of of gas and diesel cars in Europe; the gas models did exceed limits, but the diesels were worse. That is simply the nature of car emissions and decades old test cycles. The tests simply do not represent how cars are driven on the roads. Part of that is because the test equipment available at the time the tests were developed couldn't handle the rigors from acceleration, deceleration, and speeds cars were capable of. The equipment that makes the on road testing possible is relatively new.
International Council on Clean Transportation

All cars certified to current emission regulations are going to surpass the limits when tested on the road at some point. The question is by how much is acceptable as the discrepancy between the lab test and driving out in the real world? The BMW tested along with those VW's wasn't cheating, but still exceeded NOx limits on portion of the test route.

The reduced cost for the onboard test equipment means it is reasonable to incorporate their use into certification testing. They do suffer from the same issue as CR MPG testing, running the test outside means abandoning control over some variables, which gets worse on public roads.

Trucks can legally pollute through the glider loophole. The emission certification is tied to the engine, not the truck. An operator can have a brand new truck, except for an older, rebuilt engine that only needs to meet the emission certs from when it was new.

The EPA did start scrutinizing diesels harder after diesel gate. FCA got caught not disclosing all the operations profiles within the software for the 3L diesel in the Ram and Grand Cherokee. that was a sales halt, recall, some fines, and FCA no longer offers the diesel in the US. Cummins or another truck diesel manufacturer got caught a couple decades ago. Many got caught in Europe, some were worse than VW, but loopholes and lack of enforcement ability means little has been done so far.

If you don't want the corporate cheating in anything, you need a government able to enforce the laws, and that means willing to pay for that ability.

The two statements mainly apply to the US. Nearly the entire industry is guilty of some degree of cheating in Europe, and some other manufacture models emitted more than VWs.

 

Agreed.
I in no way meant to imply VW was the only one.
Was there any other manufacturer reported to have more vehicles breaking the rules than VW?
While other brands emit more pollution in typical use, did any of them use a defeat device such as VW’s?

 

Yes. Every light-duty diesel vehicle line certified in the U.S. is subject to months of extensive additional emissions testing beyond the official certification test procedures, and has since the NOV was issued to VW in September 2015. The additional testing is conducted to ensure the vehicles' certified emissions are representative in all "driving cycles and conditions that may reasonably be expected to be encountered in normal operation and use."

Gasoline vehicles are also apparently being at least spot tested:

Fiat-Chrysler announces recall of more than 850,000 passenger vehicles | California Air Resources Board

Europe is also testing real-world NOx emissions of diesel vehicles, and the latest ones certified ("type approved") to Euro 6d-temp all have RDE NOx emissions below regulatory limits:


Diesel car SHOCK - New diesel emit almost no NOX claims research | Express.co.uk

New diesel cars that emit almost ZERO NOx | Motoring Research

New diesels can help cities meet air quality targets

 

'euro's demand diesel, reject ev's'

 

Soot you can see, Electromagnetic Fields you can’t....only time will tell!

 

worried?
there IS protection ... & it's a good look, too!




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Having dug themselves in a hole, the new cars are at least a different direction. But the legacy is still there:

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Bob Wilson

 

There was a study published in 2015 that measured pollutants around London from January 2011 - January 2013 (Bohnenstengel et al. “Meteorology, Air Quality, and Health in London, The Clearflo Project,” Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society, May 2015, 779-804). The PM10 measured in this study ranged from 5 micrograms/m3 to over 30 micrograms/m3 in the most polluted section of London. Black carbon generally made up less than 10% of that total PM10, and unfiltered diesels' exhaust PM is made up of about 75% BC according to USEPA.

Of that ~10% BC component of PM10 in London, the study concludes that a majority of that BC comes from residential wood burning. See also 2.4 times more PM2.5 pollution from domestic wood burning than traffic | The BMJ for additional supporting information on the contribution of wood burning.

I'm disinclined to put much stock in someone's perceptions based on smell.