VW Faces $17B Fine for Emissions Scam

There should be no HP effect beyond what the existing particle filter and converters impose. The new equipment appears to be the 'heater' which according the article is needed only in stop-and-go or low power loads. I suspect clever design can integrate the heating elements in newly designed filters and converters.

Bob Wilson

 

I believe the cheating diesel got about 42% efficiency, while the current camry and 2019 corolla much lower cost engines gets 40% efficiency. It will be interesting to see real world mpg between them. My guess is on the epa test the only difference will be the higher energy in a gallon of diesel versus e10 gasoline. On the european test I bet the vw engine does much better ;-) its important to have flawed testing if you want to sell diesels.

hp should be higher ;-) but get dialed back easier when sensors say they should. Bob isn't really looking at what they are doing. They are using better sensors, a variable geometry turbo, and agressive cooled or hot exhaust gasses to keep the engine in a good temperature range. This makes the engine more expensive but not nearly as much as the after treatment. It will use cooled egr to make sure that it doesn't run too lean on light loads, and hot exhaust gasses on warm up.

Lock him up.

 

article on who knew what when, on cnn today. jeff sessions, of all people.

 

These technologies are the means of keeping the exhaust treatment in the working temperature range. There is so much waste heat that the engine has to be cooled with a traditional radiator. It is the exhaust gas temperature and down-stream treatment that counts: Breakthrough: new Bosch diesel technology provides solution to NOx problem - Bosch Media Service

To ensure optimum NOx conversion, the exhaust gases must be hotter than 200 degrees Celsius. This temperature is often not reached in urban driving, when cars are stuck in gridlock or stop-and-go traffic. As a result, the exhaust system cools down. Bosch’s new thermal management system remedies this problem by actively regulating the exhaust gas temperature.​

Bob Wilson

 

. . .

 

Note that those efficiency numbers are peak efficiency, they don't tell the full story.

This is what we've got for BSFC charts from Toyota:

2.0:


2.5:


And, the BSFC chart I'm aware of for the cheating VW diesels, this for a 2009 Jetta:


Using the Wikipedia figure of 0.0119531 kWh/g for diesel, the lines translate to 42.7% (196 g/kWh peak), 41.8% (200 g/kWh), 39.8% (210 g/kWh), 38.0% (220 g/kWh), 36.4% (230 g/kWh), 34.9% (240 g/kWh), 32.2% (260 g/kWh), and 23.2% (360 g/kWh) efficiency.

Also, this engine is 1968 cc, so the 100 Nm point is at about 6.4 bar BMEP, the 80 Nm point is at about 5.1 bar BMEP.

What amazes me, actually, is how closely these engines track on efficiency down the BSFC chart - the lean burn capability of diesels tends to really help them at low loads, but the part-time Atkinsonization seems to really help the Dynamic Force engines keep up.

 

I like graphs showing 3rd dimension as color

 

Thanks!

The only part missing is the operating line:

Source: Brake Specific Fuel Consumption (BSFC) Maps - EcoModder

What the cheat-diesel advocates could never get over was how the hybrid transmission turned off the Prius engine in inefficient power bands. Zero fuel burned has always been lower than diesel running at partial or low power. The only way the diesel competed was to keep the power settings high like the "Portland-to-Portland" stunt. Even then, they didn't factor in the higher energy content of diesel.

Great charts, from SAE papers?

Bob Wilson

 

The first two charts are from Toyota's marketing press packages on the 2.0 M20A-FKS and 2.5 A25A-FKS respectively.

The third chart is from Ecomodder, presumably from some technical document that VW released, but I don't know what - maybe it was an SAE paper.

The operating line isn't relevant in those, because they're the non-hybrid options - @austingreen was talking about the Camry and 2019 Corolla, presumably the non-hybrids. Toyota didn't release BSFC information on the FXS versions of those engines, outside of the peak 41% efficiency. That's also why I addressed the lighter load regimes.

And, yeah, I always remind people who complain about how much lower MPG certain hybrids get, that they need to subtract 13% from that fuel consumption to get equivalent diesel fuel consumption, and therefore the lower MPG isn't as much of an issue. (There was a post on TDIClub where someone was complaining of 33 MPG driving a Prius v. I know his driving style. Any stock TDI anywhere near the size of a Prius v - none were sold here outside of full-on SUVs, but even the small European-market vans - would be struggling to get 37 MPG driven like that, you'd have to do illegal modifications that would increase NOx emissions much more.)

 

You shamed me to look and I found, "2018-01-0370 New 2.0L I4 Gasoline Direct Injection Engine with Toyota New Global Architecture Concept." Also, "2018-01-0429 Development of New Hybrid Transaxle for Mid - Size Vehicle."

I wonder if Toyota may bring a hybrid minivan to the USA to compete with the Pacifica.

Bob Wilson

 

Hybrid minivan question reminds me of about 2004

 

i wonder if toyota is looking at pacifica sales.

 

Another one bites the dust:
http://www.hybridcars.com/toyota-rav4-diesel-killed-off-wont-returning/

Bob Wilson

 

Toyota announced that the only diesel models they will sell in EU in the near future are Hilux, Proace (in colaboration with PSA) and Landcruiser. No wonder because those three models are NOT offerd as petrol or hybrid in EU.

IMO Toyota is too slow in rolling out hybrid commercial vehicles and pickups, looks like competition will overtake them in this segment, or will they?

Toyota sales in Europe are increasing (+4%), the share of Toyota vehicles is still very small (only 5.1%), but hybrid segment is soaring, up 18% from last year and it now represents 45% of total Toyota Motor Europe sales. Toyota now sells around 500k hybrids per year in Europe.
45% of Toyota Motor Europe (TME) sales in Q1 are hybrid electric vehicles

 

One problem is that they haven't had a hybrid transmission that's been well suited to commercial vehicle workloads.

The Hino line has had hybrids, but they usually used conventional automatic/automated transmissions with an electric motor sandwiched between engine and transmission, and never used a power split (US example, the rest of the world's systems are a bit different, but same idea):

I personally suspect that the Lexus LC/LS 500h's L310 transmission is really intended for trucks, though, more than the cars it's in now. I wouldn't be surprised to see a Hilux (and Tacoma) Hybrid with some sort of engine (not sure if it'd be A25A-FXS or 8GR-FXS, to be honest - 8GR-FXS would be quite a bit more power than the non-US market expects, but the US very much expects that much power, the current Tacoma in the US usually has the 2GR-FKS) and the L310, and a Tundra Hybrid with the 8GR-FXS and L310.

 

Source: Audi CEO Stadler Arrested as Germany Expands Diesel Emissions Probe | TheDetroitBureau.com

Audi CEO Rupert Stadler has been “provisionally” arrested, the luxury arm of Volkswagen AG confirmed Monday morning, as the German government probe into emissions rigging by VW and the Audi subsidiary continues to expand.

Nearly a dozen executives and managers from the vast Volkswagen Group empire have been indicted since the automaker was first charged in September 2015 with rigging various diesel engines to illegally pass emissions tests. Several have already been convicted in the U.S., though others have fled to Germany where they cannot be extradited. But as many as 20 others are now under suspicion as Germany moves forward with its own investigation, according to the Associated Press.
. . .
But the cheating probe continues to play out in VW’s home market, even as it begins to wind down in the U.S. Just this month, German authorities levied $1.2 billion in fines against the Volkswagen Group. In May, Martin Winterkorn, the VW CEO at the time the scandal erupted, was indicted. And nearly two dozen other current and former employees remain under a cloud of suspicion.
​

Bob Wilson

 

i hope all this isn't just for show.

 

It is for show. They're showing him he shouldn't have cheated.

 

i hope you're right, and they don't find them all innocent. i don't trust the motives of the government.

 

After all, none of them have air breathing kids.

Bob Wilson