VW Faces $17B Fine for Emissions Scam

Even if they knew how to cheat, they didn't opt to do it.
VW cheated ALONE.

 

When I saw this on the news, I said outloud good. They finally are putting someone in jail, instead of just fining a company. My gf said cynically - its because he's german, it he was american he wouldn't be going to jail. She is probably right.

You can definitely do a non-urea system, and produce low enough NOx emissions with a diesel. What they haven't been able to do is produce such a system with the fuel economy needed at a price people will buy. My guess is the least expensive way is probably a diesel hybrid with an e-charger (electronic turbo charger, or a turbo charger/ electric supercharger combination) which will probably cost more than a 14 mile phev (see audi a3 e-tron phev) and use more oil :-( They cheated for profit, not because it could not be done. In the future they may come up with something better than SCR using urea for diesel, and diesel is a good fuel for heavy long distance vehicles that don't spend much time in heavily polluted cities.

IMHO diesel is pretty much dead for small vehicles in places that heavily regulate pollution. Battery and motor prices have fallen making bev, phev, hybrid, and yes even straight ice vehicles better. I am excited about engine technology in mazda's prototype skyactiv-x. Mazda's SkyActiv-X: diesel fuel economy from gasoline engine (Page 2)

 

.

 

What this makes me think of, is non-doping athletes, watching/wondering why this one guy is smoking down the track/road/pool, way ahead of everyone else.

 

Or did they? I read that Audi, Porsche and Skoda were in a similar situation. More recently I reported that documents and computers were removed from BMW HQ by police.

 

Along with the basic defrauding of customers, I have pointed this out multiple times to those saying the extra NOx emitted by these VWs isn't a serious threat, or play whataboutism with other pollution sources, like coal power. VW's crime and resulting punishment is about more than pollution.

North America lost out on the Mazda SkyActiv diesel, and an Accord diesel to replace the original hybrid because of VW.

Can't say for sure at this point. We do know that the Euro standard did have some lax loopholes for diesels, like Mercedes turning off emission control to "prevent damage from low temperatures."

 

I wouldn't be too hard on BMW:

My understanding is the core software came from Bosh and this was a 'tuning' option. In the USA test, it was a BMW diesel that showed they could meet on-road emissions. But the VW models failed the road tests.

Source:

. . .
"We were never seeing those low emissions during most part of our drives on the interstate. That part of the emissions program was interesting," he says.

In none of their road tests could they get their two Volkswagen cars to meet the claims, even though a BMW they tested did fine. Very early on it was pretty clear to the scientists that something was wrong.

He says the team kept double-checking its procedures. "And then, I mean, we did so much testing that we couldn't repeatedly be doing the same mistake again and again," he says.
. . .​

Bob Wilson

 

Let's hear it for that little lab in West Virginia Tech. Yay!!!

 

Audi, Porsche, Seat and Škoda are VW group, their engines are shared.

BMW were audited due to suspicious agreements to the emission control technology patent/sizing/cost reduction, different issue, AFAIK

 

Thanks for the clarification.

 

Source: VW faces inquiry call over diesel fumes test on monkeys | Reuters

FRANKFURT (Reuters) - Volkswagen’s (VOWG_p.DE) supervisory board called for an immediate inquiry into who commissioned tests in which monkeys were exposed to toxic diesel fumes, . . .

“I will do everything possible to ensure that this matter is investigated in detail,” Volkswagen supervisory board Chairman Hans Dieter Poetsch said in a statement on Monday.

“Whoever is responsible for this must of course be held accountable,” Poetsch said in response to a New York Times report on Friday that German carmakers had used an organization called European Research Group on Environment and Health in the Transport Sector (EUGT) to commission the tests.
​

Perhaps VW's management should have been the test subjects. Sad to say, the German's have had problems with toxic gasses in the past.

This source has more 'hair on fire' details:
VW condemned for testing diesel fumes on humans and monkeys | Business | The Guardian

. . .
“That a whole branch of industry has apparently tried to discard scientific facts with such brazen and dubious methods makes the entire thing even more horrific,” she said. Those responsible, she added “have not understood what is on the agenda here – to finally accept full responsibility in the diesel scandal”. She said she was “appalled” that scientists had “made themselves available as willing supporters of such despicable experiments”.​

Bob Wilson

 

BTW the first episode of the netflix series 'dirty money' is a great rundown of the history of the emissions scandal

 

Yeah, just watched that.



The gassed monkeys portion seemed a little over the top, but gets the message across.

 

From Bob's linked article;

I was thinking Volkswagen's defense would be, "monkeys? what's the big deal - we've been testing on humans now for quite some time"
.

 

"We were only following orders".

 

Actually in this case it was the other way 'round: the senior execs repeatedly point fingers at a few overly enthusiastic, undisciplined engineers, tsk tsk...

 

History repeats itself.

 

Next movie plot for Planet of the Apes.

 

I just watched the VW episode of Dirty Money. Wow! As a child of eastern European Jews who survived WWII in Ukraine (and almost died several times when they were in their early teens) I am a bit triggered by the whole gassing test thing. That's just insane!

However, I have to wonder how many other manufacturers do the same thing (I don't mean gassing primates, but cheating on EPA tests). I am talking gasoline engine cars as well as diesels. Since most testing is done on the dyno, most other manufacturers can do exactly the same thing. Including Toyota. Ok, on a Prius the engine doesn't run all that much, but it can still spew nasty stuff into atmosphere when it does. Who really knows?! As far as I know nobody checks vehicles for "real world" emissions. This could very well be a much deeper problem than just VW "clean" diesel. This is too easy to do and now that we have a precedent, I think it's just the tip of the iceberg. But will we ever know? I am not sure.

Another reason for EVs and hybrids to flourish, I guess. I see that VW has gotten into EV business really deep now.

 

iirc, President Eisenhower was the last senior exec that'd acknowledged responsibility for subordinates. The beginning & end of the phrase,
'The buck stops here"
.