VW Faces $17B Fine for Emissions Scam

More pain for VW in Europe Volkswagen Dieselgate fix causes breakdowns, says report

SM-G900I ?

 

EGR woes are also happening with 3rd gen Prius, troubling.

Seems like VW customers and the company have a a charged, adversarial relationship, never helps matters.

 

doesn't their conclusion fail to account for the substantial amount of ev drivers that also implement PV solar?

 

The small details.

 

May not apply to that quote, but particle emissions also include tire, road, and brake wear, along with resuspension of dust on the road.

 

Going back to your source article, they are claiming that 85% of PM2.5 emissions are non-exhaust sources, so...

However, there is a valid question raised about their resuspension methodology - while EVs do tend to be heavier, they also tend to have lower drag coefficient, affecting their wake.

 

Actually, I'd figured this out BEORE buying a Gen-3:

At the Detroit reveal:

Look carefully at the exhaust manifold and you'll notice there are 5 pipes: 4 exhaust and 1 recirculation pipe BEFORE the catalytic converters. But I had worked on a 1973, 400 cu in, Plymouth Fury engine that had a "heat riser" tube that was totally blocked by carbon. That is what happens when you cool raw exhaust.

This design flaw was fixed in the Gen-4 and Prime by tapping AFTER the catalytic converters that remove the condensible carbon.

Bob Wilson

 

safe to say we can kiss off significant amounts of brake wear due to plugin's regen. As to resuspension of Road dust & tire wear, how in the world can they figure a plug-in would be any worse than the car they would have been driving but for the fact it's not spewing ICE emissions. Apples to apples - as an example there's not that much more significant difference in weight between the Nissan Versa & the leaf (~225lbs per wheel / 900lbs total) . They're similar size cars & even share several components. . I can't wrap my head around their conclusions from those kinds of understandings. They almost seem contrived.
.

 

The way science works is to find independent studies that are consistent with or disprove the claimed phenomena. In the case of road dust, the original study used a particulate study that was non-specific and then tried to use a math model to claim it were the EVs. So how would we design a study to more directly measure the debris?

I would probably approach it by using road-side, particulate measuring equipment that uses eye-safe, lasers to measure the particulates, size, and velocities. Then a second camera would record the license/vehicle and speeds that pass through the observation area. Then submit the paper for publication.

Another approach might be air samplers on the side of the road instead of optically based, sampling. This would allow a quantitative metric of the material that can cross-check the laser metrology.

Bob Wilson

 

Yes, I raised it when I posted the link.
The paper was a review one pulling multiple research papers together. At the time of its writing, there appears to have been no research looking at the effect of the vehicle's aerodynamics on wake and particle resuspension, but there were several looking at vehicle weight.

I quoted my post with the Green Car Congress link here. Here is the link to the paper, but behind a paywall there: Non-exhaust PM emissions from electric vehicles
For the abstract, "Non-exhaust emissions already account for over 90% of PM10 and 85% of PM2.5 emissions from traffic." So exhaust particles are just a small portion of the PM coming from traffic.

The authors already assumed zero particle emissions from brake wear because of the regenerative braking systems. Vehicle weight is a factor in tire and road wear particle emissions, and EVs weight more than an ICE counterpart because of the battery. The authors also used weight as an influencing factor in resuspension, which is the largest source of particle emissions. They did so because weight does have a relation to vehicle size. At least with ICE vehicles in the researched they referenced.

I believe their resuspension results for an EV are overestimated. The batteries add weight, but it is a dense weight; EVs are smaller than ICEVs of similar weight. Then better aerodynamics would result in a smaller wake which is the main driver of resuspension. I just have no interest in conducting an experiment to form a better wake and resuspension model than using vehicle weight.

 

This is longest 'local' thread ever. I bump it only to mention

How VW's Diesel Scandal Could Cripple Its Long-Term Future | WIRED

and ask if there is anything new here?

 

idk, nothing new here. the thing is, it's just as easy for existing manufacturers to do electrification and autonomy as it is for start ups.
the only stumbling block is stubbornness. in that case, you can easily wind up like dec or wang.
but automakers have a secret weapon, strong government support.

 

Within the past two weeks, some VW executives were faced with arrests and I though VW agreed to compensate a large number of German owners. But it appears VW considers replacing the cheat software constitutes a fix:

• Report: US issues arrest warrants for former VW executives | News | DW | 22.06.2017
  
• Europe's Volkswagen owners are still getting shafted by Dieselgate

Bob Wilson

 

Shifting from one air quality problem to another air quality problem(s) is no solution, IMHO.

 

Shifting? I don't even know what that means.

the link articles talk about arrest warrants/prosecution here in the US. The fact that Volkswagen & Germany seemingly want to placate, that's a different story.
Further proof of that ...... Germany refuses to hand over the 5 conspirators that are worthy of prosecution. In short, Germany says our criminal penalties are too Steep, & thus, Germany thinks it's important to protect the alleged criminals.
Ironically, one of the follow-up articles linked to this story is how Volkswagen has surpassed Toyota, & is again the #1 worldwide seller of cars. Does that say volumes about how important their criminal Behavior appears - to most of the world? Seems like a good time to refuse all Volkswagen sales in the US until we shake these scofflaws loose from Germany.
.

 

agreed. that's why they should kill diesel and push ev's and renewables.

 

Shifting from one air quality issue (NO2 in Europe) to other air quality issues like ozone and PM2.5.

 

Don't forget most of their increased numbers are from China, where dieselgate doesn't have much impact, and the fact that the mainland Chinese still have higher regard with European cars compared with the Japanese ones. This trend is not showing anytime soon.

SM-G900I ?

 

solar panels make ozone?

 

Reducing NOx emissions in some locations does:

A national day with near zero emissions and its effect on primary and secondary pollutants - ScienceDirect