VW Faces $17B Fine for Emissions Scam

Also, as part of those 53 cars being tested, seems some CO2 irregularities were found: Germany to retest 30 cars showing 'inexplicably high' CO2 levels

 

Wonder when Europe will become equally as concerned about PM/PN emissions from gassers?

Source: Badshah, H., Kittelson, D., and Northrop, W., "Particle Emissions from Light-Duty Vehicles during Cold-Cold Start," SAE Int. J. Engines 9(3):2016, doi:10.4271/2016-01-0997, Particle Emissions from Light-Duty Vehicles during Cold-Cold Start (Abstract)

Source: Badshah, H. and Khalek, I., "Solid Particle Emissions from Vehicle Exhaust during Engine Start-Up," SAE Int. J. Engines 8(4):2015, doi:10.4271/2015-01-1077, Solid Particle Emissions from Vehicle Exhaust during Engine Start-Up (Abstract)

Source: Tak W. Chan et al. (2014) "Black Carbon Emissions in Gasoline Exhaust and a Reduction Alternative with a Gasoline Particulate Filter." Environmental Science & Technology 48 (10), 6027-6034, (Abstract)

 

When they finally cough out the diesel dust?

You know diesels are heavier than their gas equivalent cars. That means they kick up more road dust than their gas equivalent. At least in the USA, they tend to be in larger vehicles like heavy duty pickups, delivery and semi-trailer trucks. (corrected)

Bob Wilson

 

Diesels aren't heavier than the equivalent EVs - the Golf is probably the best one to look at, due to a wide spread of powertrain options (1.2-2.0T gasoline, 1.6-2.0T diesel, 1.4T PHEV, and short-range BEV are all available in Europe).

However, diesels will have higher brake dust emissions than electrics due to the lack of regenerative braking. The lack of a throttle (except during certain emissions strategies) hurts engine braking compared to a gasoline engine, but the higher compression makes up for it.

 

It was a trick posting:

I wrote 'diesels are heavier than their gas equivalent cars.' Since the premise of the faux paper was weight, it is fair to point out:

1. Gas cars are lightest
2. Diesels are next heaviest
3. EVs are heaviest

I did not include the 3010 lb, 2016 Prius that has a remarkably light traction battery and drivetrain. It would be unfair to use the 2016 Prius to criticize a paper whose authors are no doubt busy updating their paper in light of the new reality.

Bob Wilson

 

The argument you made, however, was that they kick up as much if not more road dust than EVs, though, which implied being heavier than the EVs.

For what it's worth, unladen weights for 4-door Golfs in the UK with automated gearboxes (I'll leave the Clubsport out due to its nature, and the R out due to its nature and being AWD):

Golf 1.0 TSI 115 PS 7spd DSG: 1233 kg
Golf 1.4 TSI 125 PS 7spd DSG: 1249 kg
Golf 1.4 TSI 150 PS ACT 7spd DSG: 1288 kg
Golf 1.6 TDI 110 PS 7spd DSG: 1317 kg
Golf GTI 2.0 TSI 220 PS 6spd DSG: 1370 kg
Golf 2.0 TDI 150 PS 6spd DSG: 1375 kg
Golf GTD 2.0 TDI 184 PS 6spd DSG: 1395 kg
e-Golf 115 PS 1spd: 1585 kg
Golf GTE 204 PS 6spd DSG: 1599 kg

(It's also worth noting that the e-Golf is positioned against the 1.0, 1.2, and lower-end 1.4 TSI, and 1.6 TDI Golfs, whereas the GTE is positioned against the GTD and GTI.)

So, the electrified ones will be kicking up a lot more road dust. They'll also be emitting less brake dust, but... yeah.

 

Bob, on the subject of motor-generator, all the views I have seen of Tesla suggest pure air cooling. Do you know of a non-proprietary technical description of that?

 

Agreed, pour choice of words on my part. I corrected it to reflect common practice in the USA. Here we tend to find diesels in heavier vehicles which curiously are the ones that did not cheat.

Bob Wilson

 

None, yet. It was either "Fully Charged" or one of the Autoline shows. A brilliant idea, the DHX type, liquid cooled, motor can significantly increase the power density, reducing the electric motor mass and material costs. Toyota is doing something like this with the 2016 transmission using the ATF fluid to cool the stators.

Bob Wilson

 

Wouldn't frontal area, tire footprint, aerodynamics and turbulence have more significance for disturbing road dust than weight?

 

It could, but actual research into it has been lacking. Most of the work done has been looking at weight and size class. The assumption logic is that heavier vehicles are also larger ones. Which works in general for ICE and even hybrid vehicles.

It falls apart with vehicles designed with low aero drag and plug ins, where the high density of the batteries increases weight without increasing size.

 

The only reason I might waste money on this paper is to find their reference to a "tunnel study" that seems to be the basis of their weight-to-particulate data. But then I have this problem with tunnels that seldom have rain to wash the dust to the gutters.

Bob Wilson

 

Things are moving along. Still hoping for buyback at pre-scandal value plus $5k. If so (or anywhere close), I'll be in a Prius or Volt before Halloween.

I've been thoroughly enjoying the JSW TDI for the last few months, particularly the fun of driving a manual, as well as the huge storage area (bigger than a Touareg with the rear seats down in both). In many ways it's a perfect car - except for that one flaw...

VW diesel settlement: progress being made on details, judge says

 

Take a look at the RAV-4 hybrid: huge space; auto four wheel drive; similar MPG on regular.

Bob Wilson

 

Downside to the RAV4 would be that it's much taller, with the effects you'd expect to handling and most likely sensation of speed.

And, I'd expect it to have worse highway mileage than the JSW TDI (TDIs really are fantastic highway cars), but better city. The Prius beats the JSW on the highway, and destroys it in the city. And, as far as cargo space, I'd say the Prius is somewhere between the JSW and the Golf.

Myself, I'm strongly considering the Prius as a replacement for my (older, pre-Dieselgate) TDI, whereas the RAV4 isn't a consideration at all.

 

Source: Diesel prices may rise as government considers reversing tax cuts | Politics | The Guardian

Diesel car owners could face steeper prices at petrol pumps after the government said it was considering reversing tax cuts brought in by Gordon Brown.

Transport secretary Patrick McLoughlin said Brown had made a mistake as Labour chancellor when he cut the duty on low-sulphur diesel by 3p in his 2001 budget. Brown announced the measure ahead of that year’s general election to help meet climate change targets around carbon.

However, it has since emerged that diesel engines emit up to four times as many nitrogen oxides as petrol cars and 20 times as many particulates, which have been linked to problems in the lungs, heart and brain.

McLoughlin made the comments to the London Evening Standard, which said that 9,400 Londoners die prematurely every year from breathing the city’s polluted air.​

Bob Wilson

 

Strongly disagree with the "20 times as many particulates [as petrol cars]" assertion.

It's the other way around, if anything, especially with GDI cars.

 

Link? I'd presume the 20X figure relates to new cars versus vdub's cheet mode
.

 

I'm responding to the comment about particulates, not NOx. NOx is the pollutant that was affected by VW's cheat mode.

Among many other references, there's the EPA in-use testing that Bob Wilson often references. The vehicles tested specifically by EPA showed a range of PM (mass) of 0.746 - 9.453 mg/mile for the gasoline vehicles tested, and 0.0454 - 0.863 mg/mile for the diesel models tested. Only a relatively small sample of gasoline vehicles are tested for PM, and most of them are GDI, but for the most part, gasoline is at least an order-of-magnitude higher in PM mass emissions than diesels.

 

Remember this is UK article. In 2001 there were no DPF filters, they showed up around 2006, but were not mandatory until around 2009 (EURO 5). Second problem is people tend to delete DPF when it needs replacement (depending on car usage can be as early as 5 years). We must understand that average car on road is 8-10 years old.

We are breathing what average car on road emits, there is no need to promote diesel sales in Europe, because people will buy them no matter the fuel price. The damage has already been done in 2001 and will continue for another couple of years.