VW Faces $17B Fine for Emissions Scam

All European countries makes contributions...
Budget of the European Union - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:
2014-2020[edit]

For the period 2014-2020, the EU budget is used for six main categories of expenditure:[26]

• Growth (aimed at enhancing competitiveness for growth and jobs and economic, social and territorial cohesion);
• Natural resources (covering the common agricultural and common fisheries policies, and rural and environmental measures);
• Security and citizenship (covering justice, border protection, immigration and asylum, public health, consumer protection and culture);
• Foreign policy (including development assistance or humanitarian aid outside the EU);
• Administration (covering all the European institutions, pensions and European schools); and
• Compensations (temporary payments to Croatia).

Even inside UK there are city-regions that pay more for others to develop. From the european view, it's the same when more money goes to depressed regions.

 

Votes someone from a depressed region. I see Portugal does nicely out of the EU.

And that's the problem with the EU. Turkeys don't vote for Christmas. There are now a majority of 'depressed' countries voting for more and more from the richer ones. There reaches a point where the richer ones have got to say enough, sort our own mess out. It's like looking after the alcoholic relative, there's only so much of a helping hand you can offer before you say that's it.

 

Changing the contribution rules is different from Exiting, isn't it?
Or perhaps seeing Germany foreign policy would answer that...

 

Turkeys don't vote for Christmas. Reform has been tried and is impossible - too many vested interests. The only way left is to deal with the rest of the World as well as Europe, but just not throwing good money after bad.

It's nothing to do with not liking Europe, but all to do with not liking the EU. Two very different things. And the UK isn't alone, we're just further down the road to leaving than the others.

Don't worry, we'll still trade with you guys and come on our hols to the Algarve. Just not part of an unelected European parliament.

 

German makers are finally conceding that electric and plug-in hybrid vehicles will play a big role. Last night, VW Group CEO Matthias Müller said it outright: "The car of the future ... is electric."
This was at the Geneva show.

 

but for now, they'll just keep making cheat diesels.

 

vw group stopped selling diesels in the US. They have 4 plug-ins between 3 brands now and will accelerate.

 

Our species has some curious behaviors . . . in hindsight:
Source: VW execs didn't think diesel problem would be so serious

Volkswagen considers the German shareholder lawsuits to be without merit, since any ad hoc disclosure obligation requires that the persons responsible for the fulfillment of this obligation obtain knowledge of facts relevant for the stock price and can assess the economic effects of those facts. With respect to the diesel matter, stock price relevance occurred only as of 18 September 2015 when the violation of U.S. environmental regulations was announced. Until then, there were no indications whatsoever of information with relevance for the stock price, since up until that point in time it was expected that a manageable number of vehicles (approx. 500,000) would be affected by the diesel matter and that fines in a two-digit or lower three-digit million amount would be imposed, as had been the case in the past in the U.S. in comparable cases involving passenger vehicles. Additionally, to the best knowledge, the diesel matter appeared to be an issue that could be contained by measures that were common in such cases, including effective technical solutions, and, thus, appeared to be neutral with regard to the Company's stock price. The potential maximum fine of USD 18 billion that was publicly discussed after 18 September 2015 had never been fully applied in other cases to any extent. Once an initial reliable data basis regarding the global risks had been established after the "Notice of Violation", the Company promptly published its ad-hoc announcement on 22 September 2015. The comprehensive investigation commissioned by the Supervisory Board of Volkswagen with regard to the events and responsibilities related to the diesel matter is continuing.​

We knew it was a crime but we didn't expect 'the Spanish Inquisition.' Pay the fine and move on . . .

Bob Wilson

 

It's a German thing.

 

...it was interesting, earlier in the week, one of our PriusChat members posted he was working at the EPA engine test labs in the 1970's and saw the first cheat devices. Wonder who was first?

 

Probably all of them.

Bob Wilson

 

70s? Most likely it was after market - like an exhaust bypass - which would skip the catalytic converter. I remember my mid 70's American Motors Jeep had an extremely hot thermostat which helped regulate emissions. Not sure if that was tantamount to a cheat though.
.

 

This weekend I was looking at 2016 Prius test results from the 'Test Vehicle Database' at EPA.gov only to discover, two of three tests were done by the EPA and only the 'Level 2 ECO' tests were from Toyota. At the time, it confused me until: After VW cheated, tests got tougher

Days after announcing VW's emissions violations in September, the EPA began testing to search for defeat devices used by other automakers. Extra testing began on all diesel-powered vehicles on the market.

The EPA has applied the same additional tests to new vehicles -- including gasoline models -- seeking certification that their emissions levels comply with U.S. clean-air laws.

The EPA has not said how many vehicles it has subjected to the additional testing, but the extra work being crammed into its busy labs in Ann Arbor, Mich., is slowing the EPA's approval process by at least several weeks.​

Now I understand why but we're still stuck with a problem of the Level 2 ECO has better numbers than the two other 2016 Prius. The problem is anytime two labs are testing the same things, there is going to be a variance. It is not deliberate but just how the real-world works. We're not talking big numbers but certainly in the range of what the Level 2 ECO is showing.

Bob Wilson

Source: VW’s US chief resigns, regulator raises doubts that diesels can be fixed | Ars Technica

On Wednesday afternoon, Volkswagen Group said that the head of the US branch of the company, Michael Horn, will be stepping down to "pursue other opportunities immediately,” according to the Wall Street Journal.

Horn led Volkswagen’s US operations since January 2014, and his departure comes as VW Group is under extreme scrutiny for building its cars with "defeat devices,” or software on the car’s engine management system that disables the car’s emissions control system when its driving under normal conditions, but which enables the emissions control system when the car has to pass laboratory testing.

Volkswagen said Horn’s resignation decision was reached in "mutual agreement.” Hinrich J. Woebcken, a Volkswagen Group chairman and the head of VW’s North America operations, will lead the US division in the interim.
. . .
On Tuesday, the chief of CARB’s enforcement division, Todd Sax, told state legislators that it “may not be possible” to fix VW’s diesels to the point where they are road-certifiable.

"We will have to decide what the best approach is to dealing with these vehicles, and one of the options potentially would be to accept something less than a full fix,” Sax said, according to Reuters.

Sax’s comments seemed to be positive for VW Group, suggesting that the automaker might be permitted to allow the existing polluting cars to remain on the road, while paying the state in fines to mitigate the environmental harm those cars are causing. Volkswagen’s worse-case scenario involves being forced to buy back the diesel vehicles with defeat devices from its customers, a course of action that a German newspaper reported that Volkswagen was coming to terms with earlier this year.​

Well if the Todd Sax "something less than a full fix" costs VW many times the cost of buying back the cheat-diesels. This would of course play in the EU assumption that this is 'trade', not emissions. So let's take a look:

Source: CARB official believes full VW diesel fix might not be possible

California Air Resources Board enforcement division boss Todd Sax told the state legislature that it might not be possible for Volkswagen to offer a fully compliant fix for its faulty diesel engines. The two sides could compromise so that the automaker lowers the vehicles' emissions but doesn't bring them completely in line with the law, according to Reuters.

"Our goal has been to fix the vehicles and return them to their certified configuration as expeditiously as possible," Sax said during the legislative hearing, according to Reuters. "Unfortunately, this may not be possible."

Sax said there was no compromise yet. Even if the two sides agreed to bring the diesels closer to emissions compliance, VW would still face consequences. For example, the company would likely need to pay for the ongoing pollution from these vehicles. If the the automaker and regulators can't come to an agreement, CARB is willing to take VW to court, Sax claims.​

"Ok, officer, let me pay the fine. . . . I won't do it again."

So let me suggest a solution:

1. Future VW diesel sales meeting USA emissions can be sold ONE-for-ONE with junking the cheat-diesels.
2. Offer ZEV credit sweetener to any manufacturer who salvages a cheat-diesel.
3. Offer an expiring HOV sticker to original owner who salvages a cheat-diesel.
4. Stack the crushed cheat-diesels like the old EV1s <GRINS>

Well I'm not the only one to see the problem: Calif. may allow partially repaired VW diesels to remain on road

California State Senator Jim Beall in particular expressed concern over the ethics of allowing partially-repaired vehicles back on the road and with the impact the scandal has had on current Volkswagen diesel owners.

"The moral dilemma will hang over this as long as we don't have a solution," said Beall. "It will not bode well for the state of California or Volkswagen at all if this drags out because as it drags out, people will be harmed further."

State Senator Jim Beall said allowing partially-repaired cars to continue driving on California roads raised several "moral dilemmas."

He said he was concerned that Volkswagen may resell cars that it buys back from California customers into other, less regulated markets.

He also questioned whether it was fair to California consumers that the value of their diesel cars has fallen sharply while any financial relief could still be a long ways off.

"The moral dilemma wil hang over this as long as we don't have a solution," he said. "It will not bode well for the state of California or Volkswagen at all if this drags out because as it drags out, people will be harmed further."
​

Bob Wilson

I had speculated about this a couple of days ago: VW Toys With Giving Up the U.S. Mass Market, and Dealers Fume - Bloomberg Business

It was late January, at the Detroit auto show, and Herbert Diess, the global chief of Volkswagen AG’s namesake brand, was sounding out U.S. dealers as the company grappled with the biggest crisis in its modern history. Perhaps, Diess wondered aloud, VW should stop trying to compete with the likes of Toyota Motor Corp. in America and go back to focusing on higher-end models.

“It was near crickets in the room,” said Alan Brown, chairman of VW’s U.S. dealer council.

After stunned silence came anger, Brown said. He and 11 other dealers are heading to company headquarters in Wolfsburg, Germany, next week to tell executives they fervently oppose throwing in the towel on the mass market. They want the company to stick to the commitments it has made for new models and keep U.S. prices where they are now.​

Bob Wilson

 

The dealers aren't too happy.
VW facing dealer revolt; urged to end insanity | Examiner.com

 

Such an interesting company. My last VW was a Mars Red 1977 Scirocco. A fun as heck car to drive and own. Great gas mileage, stick shift, just cool. A couple of times the car was disabled by some sort of electrical ground that was near the right console. My first vehicle to be near the $10,000 mark.

Despite many of their cars still being fun to drive, especially the Golf, the company itself hasn't changed much except for size.
Many of the dealers I visited were gruff, giving the appearance that you should be delighted just to be in their showroom. Parts issues, parts prices, and a big difference between what they considered "routine maintenance" and my own beliefs.

Owning Toyotas over the years, sans the "fun driving" part, I don't think I could ever go back.

 

vw was a very hot emerging company 15-20 years ago, focusing on young drivers and gas engines. hard to believe a little bump in the road is going to make them take their ball and go home.
just because they lost the prius wars? it makes no sense, being such a tiny part of the market. makes me think the bev talk is just that, talk. they really have no interest.

 

It continues.
Ex-VW employee sues VW in U.S. over data deletion- German media reports| Reuters

 

Talk about bad timing: Dieselgate 2.0: Volkswagen Improves Cheater Code Well After Being Caught

. . . “Unbeknownst to U.S. regulators, Volkswagen developers augmented the illegal defeat device with a software update,” NDR says. According to the researchers, this improvement happened around the end of 2014, or beginning of 2015, with the aim of a more efficient cheat.

According to the report, the previous version of the cheater code was fraught with false positives; it sometimes signaled that the car was under supervision on the dyno while in fact it was on the road with nobody watching. This would have led to the exhaust being treated, at least occasionally. “This caused the car to erroneously switch into clean test mode, and it led to increased wear on the particulate filter,” the report continues. To fix that, the new software version also monitored movements of the steering wheel, the report says. “This reliably detected that the car was on the road, and the exhaust gas treatment could be reduced.”

By November 2014, particulate filters of 6,700 Volkswagen diesel cars had malfunctioned, and without a fix, Volkswagen expected some 50,000 additional cases, the report says. End of December 2014, approximately 500.000 vehicles were invited to a service action. 280.000 vehicles received the improved update. . . . ​

I was over at Fred's TDI and remember seeing some discussions about this recall. Their concern was it might reduce performance. Funny how it turns out to have a different objective, keeping the particle filter clean and maintenance free.

Bob Wilson

 

lol so they were upset that the emissions system would work occasionally?

They really do deserve to be sued.