VW Faces $17B Fine for Emissions Scam

For consumers sake cars would be valued on miles driven, condition and cost of the fraud they bought into. What would that figure be would not hard to figure like a used car trade in on Kelley Book. But the fraud part...thats a mixed bag...
NOW insofar as VW...I am sure they would want to PAY LESS fer sure..we will see what those propositions will be I am sure.
Much has been said that this is gonna be the dealth knell of VW but I think this is a case of "Too big to fail" scenario as they have so many people employed that the German Government ain't gonna let they drop head and do a face plant. NO SIR!

 

feinberg will get it pretty close to right. if vdub balks, they'll look even worse than they did before.

 

Thanks greatly for the excellent reporting on the VW scandal. Don't be surprised if CARB approves of the letters intent....and gives VW relief to build FCVs.

 

knowing how the mind of Mary Nichols seems to work this would be the perfect opportunity to abuse the word ZEV. This would be the opportunity that the fuel cell industry would love to take advantage of. With hydrogen cars' multiple magnitudes of greater ZEV credits already - VW would have to build thousands and thousands less vehicles to atone for the wrong doing. All society would get out of it is more co2, more unaffordable cars and more non-renewable natural gas depletion. Unless that is - if Germany uses their own coal to create the hydrogen then ship it over to the US. That way Germany would be stuck with the highly toxic coal ash. Yeah due to the likelihood of more wrondoing, I can see this whole remedy going nowhere.
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Until those fool cell credits are less than feasible BEV credits...I'd say VW would jump on that. Better get it in writing that this 'help' is to get BEVs out in the world, NOT some stupid fuel cell debacle. Yeah, Toyota, I'm looking right at you! The Golf EV is a really really nice drive, very comparable and useable like my Leaf. NO WAY would i go with a VW FCV. NEVER.

 

Oh CARP! VW building hydrogen fueling stations. <GACK!!>

If CARB truly is in the air resources business, they have to get the cheat diesels off the road. Leaving them on the road violates their charter. It is like selling pristine mountain spring water with a little pee in it.

Bob Wilson

 

CARB thinks it can usurp the authority of the EPA? I think not... Even if this is a proposal VW is going to counter with something that will cost them LESS. They know at this juncture they are working with less money for projects for sure. I have to admit that it would behove VW to work MORE on EV's and Hybrids but their real market is NOT in the USA. They tried to break in to the US market but obviously got stunted big time. I think they will put their tail between legs and target the softer EURO market where the laws are less stringent and the people in power have been bought previously.....for VW's advantage. Jus' sayin..

 

Driving home, I briefly thought,'CARB credits for cheat diesels', a kind of 'Cash for Clunkers.' It works on the same idea using CARB credits for every one destroyed. This gives value to removing the cheats. Of course this would threaten a Tesla/Nissan profit center.

Bob Wilson

 

You would think they'd try and push their EV range now, but they're not. UK owners are finding it almost impossible to purchase the e-Golf or e-Up (a small city car) from dealers. Both nice cars, both reasonably priced, but dealers just aren't being forthcoming. The plug in hybrid Golf GTE is being sold (maybe the dealer still want to make money from oil changes etc), but there are many reports of reliablity issues with motors, batteries and transmissions. It's only been for sale for a few months!

I get the impression VW are hoping it'll be business as usual once it all blows over. They mght be mistaken, at least outside their home market.

 

Volkswagen e-Golf Sales Soar In Wake Of Diesel Gate Scandal

 

40X the legal NOx limit - can I get some perspective? How does that 40X number compare for example to a 1972 Ford Pinto or a 1972 VW bug ... better? worse?
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The certified NOx emissions from VW's 1.6 liter gas engine in 1973 (earliest available) was 3.0 g/mile (the highest NOx emissions recorded in the ICCT/WVU test was 1.505 g/km or about 2.43 g/mile for the Jetta TDI in the "uphill-downhill" test).

According to EPA emission factors the "Lifetime mileage-weighted average" NOx emission factor for gasoline passenger cars for model year 1990 was 2.33 g/mile.

 

I'm not sure what "perspective" means in this context. The whole reason for even measuring and setting standards was the realization that self poisoning was occurring. Then the present realization occurring is setting a "allowable" standard of self-poisoning is an assured way of ensuring self-poisoning. The sensible perspective is realizing the NOx limit was is not being exceeded by 40x but that any limit is exceeding sustainable limits by near infinite factors. Don't much care about 1972 limits since they are just as meaningless as today's limits.

 

I think you hit the nail on the head about VW 'Thinking this will blow over'. I think every automaker who gets caught will get into that mindset...but most say this is not your 'typical' cheat but an entirely GLOBAL one which blows all the notions before of a 'cheat' so to speak.
Most of the time its a technical flaw which gets discovered over time and then 'discovered' and now its a question of WHAT TO DO?
But this was implemented from the incept and they KNEW what they were doing.. Crazy enough they got away with it until these reserachers wanted to check the emissions on Diesel...it was a mission that results were..well..astounding...almost like some research firm checks out our water content and finds out aliens from another planet were poisoning it to conquer earth..okay you get the idea..lol!
I suppose one must consider the length of effort to accomplish this deceit and I think for most it was a considerable effort in the making.
For the time being all the worlds eyes are on VW and what they will do to make it right.

Its tough when your under the heat lamp and microscope...

 

Perhaps they're focussing their attention on the US market? They must have sold a handful over here, despite it being a great car. Saying that, Ford have only sold 23 Focus EV's in 2 years!?! That car is near impossible to purchase.

VOLKSWAGEN E-GOLF (model family) - How Many Left? total of 98 cars sold in over a year

FORD FOCUS ELECTRIC - How Many Left? total of 23 cars sold in 2 years

NISSAN LEAF (model family) - How Many Left? total Leads sold in 4 years 9,721

 

maybe they don't have a good battery supply.

 

Looks like VW has been granted an extension of their proposals presented previously...

VW gets extended deadline from Calif. for diesel emissions plan review

 

oh, sorry for the confusion - the other comment referencing my question got it, I think. I'm wondering how these new/VW/dirty cars' filth compares to when things really started to change .... NEEDED to change - really bad - the early 1970's. This was my memory of early 70's as a 14 year old;


folks had had enough of this - so change began to slowly happen;

• 1970: President Richard Nixon establishes the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency
• 1970: Congress enacts the Clean Air Act
• 1971: Congress restricts lead-based paint in homes and on cribs and toys
• 1972: EPA bans DDT
• 1972: United States and Canada agree to clean up the Great Lakes
• 1972: Congress passes the Clean Water Act
• 1973: EPA begins phasing out leaded gasoline
• 1973 Endangered Species Act
• 1973: OPEC oil embargo stimulates talk about better fuel economy
• 1975: Congress establishes fuel economy and tail-pipe emission standards for cars
• 1976: Congress passes the Resource Conservation Act
• 1976: President Gerald Ford signs the Toxic Substances Control Act
• 1976: EPA begins phase out of PCB’s
• 1977: President Jimmy Carter strengthens the Clean Air Act

So are the new/dirty VW's "THAT" bad? Anyway, wxman sort of answered the question, I think.
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I remember in 1962 I was playing handball in elementary school and all of a sudden I could not breathe....I had to stop and sit and try to take a breath...I was 14 blocks from the Pacific Ocean in Santa Monica, CA. I was told that it was a 'smog cloud' that came over us. The rest of use all were kinda teary...teachers told us recess was over and stay indoors till notification. Imagine what greater Los Angeles was then.
Fast forward some 4 years and we had to install PCV valves on our cars and cap off road draft tubes on our cars. Mine was a 58 Chevy.
Later on emissions controls were required as well as airpumps. Most people just removed those and defeated the vacuum controls using BB's to plug them. BUT come time to smog them the inspections got tougher to pass. It was kinda a joke then but looking back we were all trying to make the air cleaner to breath. Then came CAT converters, DYNOs and 5 gas analyzers... But in the end..cars became much cleaner year by year. I can't remember what year but I put a new car on the sniffer and I swear I thought the emissions tester was broke because it was so clean...We had to put a older car to see if it could detect as it was suppose to. Nothing wrong with machine.
Our cars are always getting cleaner no matter the motive force. I don't want to live like CHINA.

 

Thanks!

I am not surprised a delay has happened. Just there isn't a whole lot of transparency going on. VW releasing the 'delay' is not good either.

Bob Wilson