VW Faces $17B Fine for Emissions Scam

You also forgot to mention the Prius battery landfill because we all have to change there batteries every 3/5 years... It's in China somewhere I reckon.

SM-G900I ?

 

And let's not forget the brutally toxic element in PC responses while we further derail the thread

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Those are different pollutants, so the ratios expressed here are not relevant to the current VW issue. When VW just caught on NOx violations, that ratio of SOx emissions feels like bait-and-switch.

And the sulfur emissions from the ships are not being emitted and concentrated in urban zones where they cause immediate lung problems. Those ships must switch to low sulfur fuel when approaching coastal waters.

Yes, we do need to keep track of what the big fish really are, that seems to be why the EPA kept watching the heavy commercial truck industry much closer than VW's diesel cars. While sulfur is a giant fish, it is also in a different pond.

 

Lost for words but equally not surprised by the EU. Europe's a funny place. To you and me such a move is disgraceful, but to them it's logical. Different peoples, different cultures etc etc.

 

I remember some "Green Party" rallies in the past. Have they faded into somnolence?

Bob Wilson

 

I'm guessing so. I'm trying to avoid my persion politics here, but I think Merkel longs for the return of communism and is in the position to do something about it. Communism didn't care for emissions if I recall.



Trabant - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

The age of the Communism "not caring" for the emissions are as old as the Trabant project.
Berlin (and Germany) was reunited 26 years ago.
I remember 2 stroke engines motorcycles in our cities back then, and some still are.

 

In 1989? A number cars had catalytic converters then, in Europe and the UK. I know the first one was sold in the UK in 1986/7 and I had a 1989 Toyota that had a cat. On the other hand, VW had only reluctantly given up their air cooled engines not so long ago and Porsche were still selling them.

Maybe air quality in some regions of Europe was never a concern and still isn't? Perhaps the rules for emissions are dictated from these areas? Switzerland has always been very keen on vehicle emissions, Sweden, Norway and Holland as well, the UK less so, and other countries couldn't care less at all.

Why should the rules be bent to allow a bent German car manufacturer meet the rules? Surely they should be made to comply? How did my 2009 year gen3 Prius technically comply with the Euro6 emission levels 5 years before they were introduced, yet VW say they just can't comply now? Says more about VW as a company.

Perhaps living on the far west of the continent and getting lots of fresh Atlantic air has skewed your views on air pollution?

 

GC, my post was to identify different eras. Trabant is long ago.

These rules bent-over may have technical support (lab/route, EGR operation as example?), we do not know it for sure, yet.
Every other manufacturer exceeded limits on road, the bottom line is...why....

 

Yes. Several claimed they had better understanding of a New England Journal of Medicine article than the original authors.
I briefly thought about citing the "anti-knowledge" article but instead:

• Quoted the original post claiming deaths mining rare earths - pointed out my response was for that user with something about 'throwing rocks.'
  
• Claimed ignorance about epidemiology and my preference to cite original sources. A subtle point, toss a rumor claim and it will be answered by a peer reviewed, professional paper.
  
• Discussed my personal experience with air pollution in California, Denver, and Washington DC area pre-Clean Air Act compared to Marine Corps, pepper gas training. That youngsters are not breathing the 1960s air unless they go to China.
  
• Introduced my Prius-UPS project and how it is quieter and safer than standalone generators.

Hopefully they got the joke about 'throwing rocks' answered by a serious medical report. It then led to my lay experience with air pollution including current use of a Prius as an emergency generator.

Back to the thread drift, China is our favorite 'bad boy' of pollution while the Chinese work to deal with their air quality issues. So I also posted a Chinese traffic jam photo in the smog.

Bob Wilson

 

In a news clip I saw on deutschewelle (dw.de), a representative of the European ICCT said that the gap between emission lab tests vs actual road tests have gotten wider and wider in Europe, 8% in 2001 and 40% in 2014. The manufacturers know this, the governments know this as well as their regulatory agencies. While politicians across Europe criticize VW in front of the camera, all of them, especially countries with auto manufacturing - UK, France, Germany, Italy - lobby to keep the tests easy to pass. So Cameron, Hollande, Merkel and whoever is in charge of Italy the last month are doing exactly what pols do... protect their national interest.

Toyota is not saintly either. Many Hybrid owners, especially those who bought Hybrid cars for environmental concerns, aren't informed either. In the US, Toyota's long-term strategy with its Hybrid offering is to kill 2 birds with one stone.... seize the "green credential" while expanding gas-guzzling V8 SUV/trucks line-up and meet CAFE standards. Toyota truck/SUVs aren't getting much traction in the Midwest and Southern states. Which is why they will relocate their HQ to Texas in 2017-18... to cut costs and prepare for an out-all war against domestic trucks. It's more of a cultural break-through that Toyota needs. Hence, they race in NASCAR... very middle America icon as Bud Lite.

In America, we care this much about our carbon footprint...

Evidence: Auto Sales - Markets Data Center - WSJ.com

 

Toyota reached 8 million hybrids recently, and most truck/SUVs are USA models only.
As an automotive manufacturer, has been the most proactive in reducing footprint. 18 years ago: the first mass hybrid, 3 years ago: no diesel Lexus in Europe, only hybrids and a few gassers.
Don't judge Toyota only for its american strategy.

 

Fridays are when 'bad news' is announced:

• VW says will foot tax bill for carbon emissions blunder| Reuters
  
• http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/07/business/walter-maria-de-silva-vw-chief-designer-to-retire.html?_r=0

I take no joy in this because diesels provided cover for buying a fuel efficient vehicle. In the past, the top 20 vehicles reached down to about 1,000 units per month. Now it dips under 800 units per month because of VWs fraud.

Bob Wilson

 

hopefully, our government officials will care more than eu officials.



















Merged.

he's just trying to obfuscate vdumbs evil doing by moving the spotlight to toyota, as if they had put a cheat in their emissions software. what he realizes, but doesn't talk about is that toyota would not be in business if they only sold green cars. but no one here ever called them saints.

 

It's almost as though you have to pick a manufacturer by who has the least amount of scumbaggagery going on. I know who i'm voting for ....

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The Ralph Nadian?

Bob Wilson

 

I google that "ralph nadian" auto manufacturer - they're still not on my radar . . . they must not be making clean cars in the US yet - but if they ever do i'll certainly give them full consideration - as long as they can carry 7, charge off our PV, pull a 5,000Lb trailer & do 0 to 60mph in under 4 seconds .... oh.... and their name has to work with these plates we already got waiting for us at the DMV;

Shouldn't be too hard to find us something, eh?

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Totally agree with first paragraph. Not with the second.

A for-profit company is not a moral or immoral organism. It is an cooperative effort between a very limited number of corporate officers to make as much money as possible, mostly for themselves....as required by the corporate laws of the land. (Shareholder value and all that BS.) Until the world restructures the corporate laws to eliminate this bizarre setup of ensuring the corporations must force wealth into the hands of the very few, the problem is with the world, not the companies.



Merged.

Doing 0 to 60 in 4 seconds pulling a 5000 lb trailer while carrying 7 and remaining connected to the PV array is a tall order.

(I don't see any problem with the clever advertising for Kleenex.)

 

cleanair corvair?

 

at least GM wasn't trying to proclaim their diesels were as clean as EV's. The only thing more stupid than Volkswagen proclaiming that, would be for them to have stated their diesels could take toxic air and purify it.
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