VW Faces $17B Fine for Emissions Scam

Downplay of emissions, especially NOx, was common among the diesel supporters. It doesn't surprise me at all that the executives shared that sentiment.

Also, we saw the "group think" problem with Volt. So, there's no element of surprise that it can.happen with any technology.

What is surprising is the scale. No ever imagined deception so grand.

 

The technical aspects:

Horn told lawmakers on a U.S. House oversight subcommittee that hardware changes and software changes will be needed for the cars equipped with the first generation of VW’s EA189 2.0-liter turbodiesel, starting with the 2009 VW Jetta TDI.

“We know we can fix these vehicles” to satisfy emissions standards, Horn said.

About 325,000 VWs have the first-generation 2.0-liter diesel, while 90,000 use the second-generation engine, including the 2012 Passat diesel, according to a VW spokeswoman. About 67,000 vehicles from the 2015 model year forward use the third-generation diesel engine. The third-generation engines do meet emissions standards and can be made compliant with a software change alone, Horn said.

Customers receiving repairs should expect to maintain the EPA fuel economy ratings on their vehicles after receiving a fix, though performance may be impacted, Horn told lawmakers.​

Source: Older VW diesels will need software and hardware fixes, Horn tells lawmakers

Bob Wilson

 

Diesel engine's positives - packs more energy, higher MPG comparable to gas, runs lean/hot which means lower CO2.

Negatives - diesel particulates and NOx.

NOx is the sore thumb. It would be interesting to see if the retrofit solution would raise CO2 level per gallon and lower MPG.

 

Strange that it can be corrected with a simple software update. How these people could allow a car to pollute when it was easily capable of being clean. Total contempt for peoples health and laws.

 

The little guys behind the discovery...

-Peter Mock: German rep at ICCT, who tipped his American colleague, John German, about discrepancies in VW Passat and Jetta's emissions.

 

Toyota has a TV ad in the US for its compact vehicles that goes: "I want my MPG!!!"

Within the VW circle (fans), VW diesel higher than EPA MPG is factoid that's more than a decade old. I'm sure VW knows that too so they probably programmed the software with bias towards efficiency... running lean (higher NOx) and minimal urea injection frequency. And since EPA was asleep, why not?

Depending on the demographics of the region, my guess is the majority of those in the rural parts of America don't really want this fix. If they're forced to accept the retrofit via denial of registration renewal, there's always aftermarket tuning software to go around and/or alternate the factory's algorithm. It's not new anymore to have multiple versions of engine management software stored in the ECU/ECM and on a laptop. Tuning is a big within the VW/Audi community. VW Group's modular platforms allow the sharing of components to improve performance of a lowly VW. It's buckets load of fun.

For example: A Beetle with 500HP, AWD

 

You have just pinpointed another minus of the diesel engine:
It is inherrantly dirty(ier), needs lot of post combustion measures to cleanup. These can be easily bypassed in aftermarket power boosting.
Just heard that in Spain, authorities caught several aftermarket locations doing just this.

 

I don't know how it is in the plains of Spain but here in the US, aftermarket engine tuners for road cars are supposed to follow the law. Not all customers are unconcerned about the environment. Software and hardware must pass smog inspections. Here in California, you don't mess around with C.A.R.B.... they can destroy you. They were one that persisted after WVU sent them the info. They digged up the dirt on the VW diesels. The EPA just has federal power to tell VW what to do.

 

Sure, in LALA land plus 10 other states with annual inspections. But what about the rest?

 

The constitution has limits on federal power. Besides, America is a big country; there national parks bigger than some countries in Europe. Air pollution exists mainly in densely populated urban areas, heavy manufacturing areas, farming areas and natural resource extraction. Here in California, the biggest air pollution problem is in the farming area of the San Joaquin Valley. It's actually fertilizer that gives off lots of NOx.

But If you asked a guy who lives in Wyoming (population 580k, 97k sq mile) about protecting the air quality, he might say, "We don't have a problem with air pollution, we have too much fresh air."

That said, there are states like Florida and Texas where a great many believe an abundance of CO2 is necessary for healthy trees. Power of the oil industry.

 

Ok, tell me EPA tested every one of this tuning boxes that you can find on the market:
Electronic Horsepower and Torque: 2014 Tuner Buyers Guide: Performance Products

This VW issue has showed us that it takes just a little software tweak and NOx goes through the roof. And this wen't on without detection on ALL production cars for several years. Don't tell me the tuning box goes through the same procedure as a production car.

 

This is the problem of law enforcement. It's the same thing with the banking industry that caused the Global Financial Crisis. Regulators asleep or regulatory agencies were stripped of their funding on purpose depending who is in power. Even now no one is in prison, except Bernie Madoff.

 

Emissions cheating by interstate truckers is what led the U of West Virginia to develop their testing technology. The risk is being caught and they were. If you can't pay the fine, don't do the crime.

Yesterday I was following an old Civic driven by an unusually, low skilled driver (they STOPPED in their dedicated turn lane!) The exhaust was so poor, I suspect my Prius could have used it to run. I cleared the next lane and accelerated around them ASAP for fresh air and distance from a rolling accident. This is not uncommon in Alabama and about once a week I find cars that were modified. So I also remember a Civic with an over-sized exhaust tip and excessive noise and know it has been 'tuned' to be a stinker. But such cars and pickups seldom last long and the owners pay their fine at the pump and the tow-truck.

Please don't characterize VW diesel customers as being as corrupt as VW the company. The pre-September 18 buyers were victims of this fraud too. Kelly Bluebook has already reported a 13% drop in used VW diesels since the announcement. The buyers of these diesels after the September 18th announcement have self-identified themselves as being unusually ignorant and/or voluntary polluters.

Of course there will be loud-mouth jerks in any group (see ignore user list.) Then there is the You Tube video of a Prius lady berating a pickup owner. Stupidity is an equal opportunity employer. Like Ron White says,"You can't fix stupid."


BTW, the claim that diesels out perform the EPA rating, the data:

This data pre-dates the VW cheat of 2009. My eyes see the Prius middle being ~51% and the diesels at 57%. I trimmed out the top and bottom 5%, a total of 10%, to remove the outliers. Makes one wonder how long the cheats might have existed.

Bob Wilson

 

The other strength of diesel is less hydrocarbon emissions, because it is heavier than gaso. I never quite bought the argument, but some diesel advocates add extra hydrocarbons emissions to gaso cars. In other words, the DoE assumes a certain loss factor of gasoline by evap in the refining/distribution process. Some diesel advocates take that DoE evap number and assign it to gasoline vehicles.

 

if there are owners who don't bring their vehicles in for updates, this is where vwub's true colors will shine. will they find a way to entice them, or will they wash their hands of them?

 

It will depend upon the state and municipalities in the state. FL once had annual emission inspections but ditched them. It became clear that automaker regulations and non-auto regulations were doing far more to improve pollution than paying for a huge infrastructure to allow millions of old stinkers to pass and completely ignoring trucks and semis. The inspections were actually working the edges, not addressing the biggest polluters. Same situation here. What is done about the existing non-compliant VWs is of very minor impact compared to the future diesels (or lack of diesels) in the future decades.

 

excluding the government, vdub has an opportunity to make a statement about what direction they are going in the future. they can ignore non compliant owners, or they can try like crazy to persuade them.

 

VW's in deeper doodoo...

Volkswagen Admits Its Cars Run on Soylent Green

 

Oh boy!

 

I worked for 4 years on a TV show called "The Fall Guy", I think it is time for a german sequel.