VW Faces $17B Fine for Emissions Scam

...that's a good video/discussion...Prius mentioned at 10:14 minutes

 

Sorry to 'kick the thread-nest' but I found out one the data tables reported by Argonne Labs doesn't match the raw data from their tests. The technical details are:
VW Faces $17B Fine for Emissions Scam | Page 27 | PriusChat

I was looking for evidence of an MPG cheat in the Jetta test data for US06 (aka., the Top Gear test.) The Argonne summary table pointed to one set of Jetta mileage results but the detailed data didn't match. But when I summed the amount of fuel burned, the individual samples, and divided by the 8.02 miles, voila, it suddenly made engineering sense. There may be a latent calibration issue between the rate of fuel consumed and their 'lab' measured consumption but the rate of fuel consumed calculation is much more consistent.

Bob Wilson

 

Oliver Schmidt heading back to Germany before he could be arrested here in the U.S. Maybe with all the questions the EPA was asking this year, VW called him home.

A wild guess.

 

He would have known right? this issue was found a while ago.

 

Yes. They've been looking into the university findings for a long time. Every time VW was asked about it, they would defend themselves and say "you're doing the tests wrong". So, the EPA would calibrate their machines and do the test again. In the end, VW finally fessed up.

 

The VW diesel scandal is now a Halloween costume

HalloweenCostumes.com

 

... rising to a macro-perspective plateau to intellectualize our plight, crux of the dilemma becomes, technology transfer: those encharged guidance and stewardship of our automotive industry are picking losers; they're advancing the wrong technologies.

Not only are these people making bad decisions? Corporate irresponsibility, they're making catastrophically bad decisions. Even our gasoline hybrids, nice person backward, this reality -- our reality -- is an abomination. It was never meant to be.

A divergent evolution, incorrect application of technology, evolving a retrograde WWII technology up the wrong branch of car culture's decision tree, turbochargers were never intended for small displacement internal combustion engines which oscillate at variable engine speed.

Turbochargers were intended for high altitude, large displacement multiple cylinder engine applications, with little frequency variation per engine speed. For piston-driven high performance WW II aircraft flown at constant engine speed, turbocharging was once optimal. Woefully sub-optimal, turbocharging was never intended for variable rev, high frequency engine speed oscillations.

Only way to extend engine life of small displacement turbocharged engines would be, (1) dialing the cars down, (2) eliminate duty-cycling, entirely, swap multiple speed transmissions for CVTs. VW execs might have had a somewhat easier time of their emissions conundrum, had they forethought and presence of mind to mandate CVTs for their turbo-Diesels.

Getting a turbo-Diesel to pass emissions... any idiot can do that. The trick is (1) sustaining it, and (2) warranting emissions duration of the entire 150 thousand mile federal mandate.

That an archetypical turbocharged gasoline vehicle can't even make 90 thousand miles on its OEM power-train, to rebuild time, all the more difficult, a high compression Diesel. No way VW could warranty a Turbo-Diesel power-train 150 thousand miles, without toggling off emissions. Too antiquated, too complex a car, I don't think a turbo-Diesel VW could run emissions legal, half the federal mandate (e.g., 75 thousand miles).

Not the sharpest pencil in the cup, my neighbor across the street, always wrestling with his beloved Martha Stewart por le mieux-mobile (e.g., Mercedes turbo-Diesel), constantly in the shop, constantly breaking down, crankcase oil leaking everywhere staining his driveway, I saw for myself, firsthand, those German turbo-Diesels are bug city. I worried, that never could a VW turbo-Diesel make 150 thousand miles, trouble free, to its first rebuild.

Bought my Prius, instead -- Samuel, '04 Ruthiemobile.

 

No room for Winterkorn excuses "I didn't know", is there?

 

All this emissions malarkey reminded me of a time back in 2009 when I was looking to buy a new taxi. I looked at the new shape (as it was then) Skoda Superb diesel. I'm glad I didn't get one as many of my colleagues at the time did and suffered stuttering or spluttering from the car when used in heavy traffic for a week or two. It just struggled to clean the particle filter and drank urea. I know of two drivers who rejected the car and got the dealers to take them back. These were early 2008 2.0 models. I wonder if VW (who Skoda is a cheaper EU offshoot of) realised the engine wasn't able to perform with emissions working and hence the dodgy fix? They did seem to magically cure this issue in later cars.

Now it turns out we have a good idea how.

Škoda Superb - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

my dentist told me he was going to trade his 5 series for a passat, because it's a rebadged audi, but changed his mind after this came out and went with another bimmer.

 

... I could fathom VW execs pulling this off, no one ever the wiser, perhaps a few months. Slim outside chance, I could see maybe a year. But, stretching it two years? The better part of a decade?

No! As close to a statistical impossibility as arithmetically conceivable, after just two years odds of no one finding out, well into the billionths, are so remote we're talking numbers significantly smaller than winning the lottery.

To pull this off the better part of a decade, it is inevitable the following cohorts would, within a two year period, catch wind VW was cheating:

1). VW's entire top echelon, down to mid-management
2). VW entire design and engineering staff
3). VW Payroll, Finance & Accounting
-- e.g., where all paperwork, data and supporting documents flow
4). VW's entire dealership network
5). VW's entire network of service technicians (e.g., )
6). VW's entire network of independent mechanics
7). VW's tier-I parts supplier network
-- e.g., fuel injection, fuel delivery, electronics, exhaust systems;
8). VW-Porsche-Audi works racing teams
-- e.g., everyone in WEC, WRC, DTM and BTCC.
9). Society of Automotive Engineers
10). FiA, and its worldwide network of member clubs (e.g., AAA)
11). Volkswagen's aftermarket contingent to the SEMA fraternity
12). The United States automobile insurance industry
13). Specialty automotive press corp; automotive journalist fraternity
14). Peer engine makers
-- e.g., Daimler-Mercedes; BMW; Toyota; Honda; FCA; Ford; Renault; GM
15). Big oil (e.g., the refineries)

That there is no statistical likelihood, within a two year period, professionals linked to any of the aforementioned cohorts would not have eventually caught wind of VW's emissions shenanigans, the 64 thousand dollar question becomes, what was the enforcement mechanism?

To ensure not one individual belonging to any one of the aforementioned cohorts dare ever step forward, what was the enforcement mechanism VW management employed to control all those people? What were the incentives? What disincentives; whose arm got twisted? How many people did VW execs muscle?

Just too many people over-compartmentalized across more than a dozen distinct cohorts, the argument no one stepped forward to do the right thing because VW's powers of moral suasion were so compelling, doesn't hold water. There had to be an enforcement mechanism.

Presumably, VW execs would have had to budget a considerable sum to keep this quiet. Specific policies VW execs approved to grease, threaten and/or intimidate all those people into looking the other way had to have mushroomed, into the biggest gravy train in automotive history -- Samuel, the '04 Ruthiemobile.

 

idk, if a rogue engineer came up with a scheme, who would be the wiser? there might be some raised eyebrows, but a blind eye is not as bad as intent. or is it?

what i would like to know is, didn't any other diesel mfg.'s reverse engineer one to try and figure out how they were doing it?

 

It's called a paycheck.

 

Diesel car sales not affected by VW emissions scandal – Autocar:

 

VW emissions greatly hurt their US sales of these models. I guess people in the UK just don't care how much the cars pollute. I expect that german and french vw diesel sales will be down like american sales.

 

m.theage.com.au/comment/how-the-lucky-country-is-blowing-its-luck-20151005-gk1odq.html

This article highlights the problems that we are facing in Australia re too reliant on cars:
- 60% kids driven to school
- traffic congestion cost rise to $53 billions p.a.
- low density homes still dominate urban sprawl, further exacerbate the traffic problems
- Australia only country in the world that has less than 90-day oil reserves
...

A couple of cheating diesels are not going to help the situations either.


SM-G900I ?

 

Or that Autocar is renowned for eating out of VWs hand. It's clearly propaganda to try and stop the slide of VW sales. The VW scandal is as hot over here as it is in the US. I've seen school kids waft their noses (to indicate a foul smell) at a VW diesel driver in traffic the other week - much to my amusement.

The figures quoted in the above link will have been before the scandal. People are now thinking long and hard about emissions. Obviously there are sociopath owners who don't give a damn, but many others do.

Diesel takes a knock but new car sales accelerate - Telegraph

"Sales of VW cars were 39,263 in September, a rise of 3.7pc compared with the same month a year ago. However, this was significantly below the 14.3pc rise recorded in the preceding year, hinting that buyers could be responding to the VW scandal by shying away from the brand."

I also think the damage has been done more to diesel than just the VW/Audi Group.

 

Who would have thunk?

"Researchers found BMW, Ford, Mazda and Mercedes cars emitted levels of nitrogen oxides up to seven times the legal limit. Volkswagen engines polluted 35 per cent less than comparable cars"

 

I would recommend reading the original: Institute for Transport Studies: Implications of the VW scandal

It also has a damning PDF link:

Over the last years the team at the Institute for Transport Studies (ITS) has measured the exhaust emissions of over 1,000,000 vehicles in urban locations including a recent sample of vehicles which have passed the latest Euro Six emissions requirements. Whilst individual results are variable and highly sensitive to operational factors such as acceleration and road gradient, the overall trend has shown no improvement in emissions of NOx by diesel passenger cars of successive euro classes with the highest measurements recorded equivalent to a heavy goods vehicle’s. . . .​

Bob Wilson

 

A number of European manufacturers have come forward to absolutely guarantee they've not been fluffing the emissions figures.

Toyota and Honda have not. Something to hide perhaps? I hope not, but disgusting if they have. Toyota are pushing ads on their "hybrids you don't have to plug in" a lot, and nothing about their diesels. Honda dropped their entire hybrid range this year and concentrated on diesels.

I liked my Prius and I liked the dealer back up (much better than Nissan), but if Toyota have had any part in this diesel emissions shenanigans, then they've lost me as a customer. If they've nothing to hide, they can confirm in the press that they haven't been up to no good.

VW emissions scandal: recalls to begin early in 2016, some cars need hardware fix | Auto Express

"So far, BMW, Daimler, Mercedes Benz, Ford, Jaguar Land Rover, the PSA Group (Peugeot/Citroen) and Renault-Nissan have all categorically denied manipulating emissions tests by using software based algorithms or other means."