VW Faces $17B Fine for Emissions Scam

That is likely true for the Jetta and other models with just the LNT. For the Passat and others with SCR, the fix likely won't affect the owners current fuel economy.

The Jetta isn't the only diesel to exceed EPA. Perhaps other manufacturers are cheating. We'll likely find out one way or the other in the near future, but diesel cars were exceeding their EPA before ULSD and the tighter NOx limits.

NOx is a pollutant. In the US, considering what else is running on the roads, VW's fraud has caused greater damage. It is yet to be proven if other makes were cheating. Their cars were another option for people to reduce petroleum consumption. For those that wanted a smaller vehicle that could tow, diesel may have been to only affordable option.

Biodiesel and another vegetable based diesel substitute lower NOx emissions compared to petro-diesel. If a breakthrough came through tomorrow that made large scale adoption of them possible, it might have no impact, because the people have another reason to dislike diesels.

And after these cars are fixed or bought back, there will still be people modifying their diesel and gasoline vehicles for better performance and fuel economy at the expense of emissions. VW will be justly punished for their actions. Will there be a push to punish those individuals and aftermarket companies?

 

I agree. Europe has both better public transportation (alternatives) and higher fuel taxes. These combined with lifestyle make lower per capita fuel usage than the US.

Part of the lower fuel usage was a lower relative tax on more efficient diesel cars, along with a favoring of ghg reduction versus regulating unhealthy pollution. As a result Europe has a more efficient fleet of higher polluting cars. I don't think we want to follow that part.

 

It sounds like the 2015+ models have the special software tune, but it isn't active and the cars meet emissions requirements.

CleanMPG Forums - View Single Post - 482,000 VW TDIs Produce 5 to 35Xs the NOx Beyond Federal Emissions Requirements

The Gen3 emissions control programming within the EA288 2.0L TDIs - 2015 and 2016s with SCR - are CARB LEV-2/LEV3 and EPA Tier-II/III emissions compliant but with a hitch. The software (SW) defeat switch is still in the ECU even though it is not being SW switched to a "hot tune" like the older EA189 2.0L TDIs.

 

A fuller story emerges.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/27/business/as-vw-pushed-to-be-no-1-ambitions-fueled-a-scandal.html?_r=1

 

is this scandal going to hurt or help the Chevy Cruz diesel ?

 

It's going to hurt all diesels.

People are now reminded that diesel is an inherently dirtier fuel than gasoline, and "clean diesel" (VW's marketing) is a lie. Actually clean-ish diesel (everybody else, presumably) is going to have a tough time distancing itself from VW's massive and brash deception. There will be suspicion associated with the technology for a very long time.

 

.... and the genII PiP?

i know Bob already addressed this fallacy - but the methodology always continues to come up. It's not that all things man-made negatively impact the environment (ergo it's not so bad) that give rise to the notion that other "wrongs" deserve a break. It's a matter of enforcement for known harm - and NOT giving a free pass to others. To further point out the fallacy of "everything pollutes" - you can defend with, "even humans exhale CO2 and exhaust methane". That's the kind of lame excuse that kids try to use to justify their wrong - "Johnny did it also". The transportation industry is supposed to be trying to do its best. One example of trying to do right would be, Nissan Leaf - it uses a substantial amount of recycled materials, and 100% is recyclable. let's not go the other way and let manufacturers say "well they're doing wrong so we might as well also".
.

 

I feel like calling up my friend that urged me to buy a VW diesel like he did and ask, "how are you liking that diesel now?" He is a bit closed minded. No need to kick a man when he's down, though.

The reason I went with a Prius is the cost per fuel mile. The lower city/highway mpg of VW, and higher diesel fuel cost didn't compare to a Prius. Plus, Toyota has a high reliability reputation.

Overall though, I have sympathy for VW diesel owners that feel betrayed and no longer have pride in ownership. I'm very glad that after comparing the cars I went with Prius.

 

Bosch warned VW about illegal software use in diesel cars, report says

 

+1

Grr

 

The reporting needs to be clarified. The term "engine management software" obviously means something like "emissions switching software" instead. (Bosch would not be telling VW that using software was illegal. That is probably a result of the translation.)

This does clarify how Winterkorn was the instigator of this deception. Notice how the engineers telling him that urea injection was needed...and then suddenly they are demoted and removed. (or maybe they removed themselves?) In their place Winterkorn recruits a couple of cooperative cohorts from his old stomping grounds to carry out his desires.

 

. . .
This would have added a cost of 300 euros ($335 in today's U.S. dollars) per vehicle -- a sum that VW finance officials said was too much at a time when a companywide cost-cutting exercise was under way.
. . .​

Source: Bosch warned VW about illegal software use in diesel cars, report says

Not the first time an accountant has designed a car . . . it led GM to their bankruptcy (along with the Lutz/Wagner leadership!)

Bob Wilson

 

AUDI: 2.1 millions of our cars have the defeat device.

 

I must be immune to the "German Integrity and reliability" disease. Over the years, I've come to note that a lot of very nice-looking ladies bought VW Jettas. I've always known that if you happen to get an incredibly good VW, you might just have a "C" grade in reliability. But German Reliability was always more of a catchphrase from the stern-looking loyalist behind the counter at the deal. You know, the one that would say "Your brake rotors are impeccable, and the $1,000 required to replace them with the very best, German-engineered rotor is completely normal at 21,000 miles of use". The very same guy that told you "You're German-engineered car is most definitely NOT BURNING OIL!!!!!!!!!! It is using the oil as intended, to keep it's pristine, German-manufactured parts well-lubricated".

Yeah, I've always known that to go into the service centers for VW, Mercedes, Audi, you would always need to be "well-lubricated" before being hammered.

Other than the Passat, which I think is and incredible POS, the Jettas and Golfs of the world are a lot of fun to drive. Several times I've almost done the dirty deed and bought one, knowing full well that I might suffer a mental breakdown going from an Avalon/Camry/Corolla that mostly just required new oil at intervals. I just came back from a 600-mile trip that reminded me once again why I would rather drive a Jetta Wagon than this v. But realistically, I'd also rather have my old Corolla and the others than this v on such a trip as well.

What the diesel car makers have to do now is to market their reputations and their cars. If the fix involved for VW doesn't really mean much in terms of dollars or economy, all of this will pass, with the exception of the punitive fines and actions. I don;t know how this will end, but I do know this. People that love their TDI's are not going to march down to the Toyota dealer and buy a Prius. Some might, but I'd wager that's a small percentage. VW will probably go for broke and give them credits towards a compliant, non-cheating vehicle.

There's a ton of vehicles out there now, and I seriously doubt that hybrids will be the replacement for the TDI owners. Just entirely different beasts.

 

Mr Llewellyn has a good ol' rant about VW;

Worth watching through, if nothing other than to see the English countryside on a sunny day

 

Audi and Skoda are officially stinkers too;

Audi and Skoda say 3.3m cars have 'cheat' emissions software - BBC News

 

At least when BP destroyed the ecosystem in the Mexican gulf (deep water horizon), they had the good sense to pretend to be repentant over it. Remember? They sent out a bunch of people to help with the clean up? In light of the PR spin possibility, I'm kind of puzzled why it is that some VW spin doctor hasn't suggested maybe one their talking heads come before the public and at least pretend to be sorry? .... maybe hint they'll take car of it? No? . . . . . still nothing? Helo . . . . VW . . . . anybody home? . . . . nothing? I've heard just teeny bits of their "oops ... sorry".
.

 

The simple answer is that people are an emotional lot, and a lot of that emotion is driven by visuals.

In an oil spill, there are always oil-slicked beaches and oil-drenched wildlife. Every time the broadcast news shows an image, the outrage grows.

Do you remember the recent outrage and sudden upswelling of political will over the single image of the Syrian child dead on a beach? Most people knew that an immigrant crisis was occurring in the Mediterranean, and people were dying by the hundreds (if not thousands) as unsound ships sank nearly constantly. Of course in those hundreds, there were children as well. But the emotions (and outrage) don't quite swell until they saw an image that brought the situation into their reality, as opposed to easily-ignored concepts of what's-happening-over-there.

Do you remember the recent outrage over the EPA's accidental pollution of the Animas river in the course of cleanup work? People knew that it was completely accidental, was not the result of obvious negligence (old mines are known as deathtraps for their structural unsoundness and variety; almost a random number generator), and this all occurred in the process of serving completely noble motives: environmental remediation. And yet people were outraged. Because they saw the pictures.

VW knew that the damage they did to the environment isn't obvious, and will probably never be entirely quantified. They will minimize and not draw any attention to that part, unless some quirk of circumstance thrusts it in the news for people to see and be outraged by.

 

The key factor is this was not an accident due to greed and incompetence. It was a fully planned and executed fraud due to greed and incompetence. That really mucks up the standard canned PR responses. Think of how all the following excuses come across really weak:

1) Apparently some of the software code written by an intern did not get vetted out.
2) We have replaced the CEO with someone who can actually execute marketing plans successfully.
3) We found out about it on TV. We are now figuring out how this happened.
4) The original explanations to the EPA were not making them happy, so we provided an explanation intended to make them happy.
5) There was some misinterpretation in the German-English translations of the specification requirements.
6) After the first year of operation, it was clear the EPA was satisfied with what we had done.

Right now the PR department is probably locked up over how to say anything that does not increase fines from saying nothing.

(When Winterkorn stated he had done nothing wrong, I suddenly realized Sgt. Shultz of Hogan's Heros was a real person.)

 

The Germans would prefer you use the term 'Efficiency".