VW Faces $17B Fine for Emissions Scam

It is a stocked item at autozone, pep boys, etc, and also places like wal-mart.

XT1097 ?

 

It's also in pumps at truckstops .

 

I think Wayne has a Prius PHV in the family now, but his car was a non-hybrid, manual transmission Accord. Before getting to try them out over an extended period, he was just anti-hybrid.

Perhaps VW was limited to a smaller DEF tank for some reason.
As mentioned, DEF is now readily available in 2.5 gallon boxes for under $12 at most places that sell car maintenance goods. A gas station that has diesel would likely have gallon jugs. Truck stops dispense it from pumps, and are the cheapest source.

It wasn't so readily available when these NOx control systems first were needed though. The earlyist reported prices were from the scheduled maintenance services at M-B dealers. IIRC, it was $150 for the AdBlue with whatever else was included, I hope an oil change.

 

He pushed really hard against hybrids prior to that, using Corolla as the example. We got an endless stream of real-world data about his driving... until I finally pointed out that both my mom & sister had Corollas too. In fact, the difference between his MPG results and what they got for MPG was how the term "hypermiling" came about. It got coined in one of his rather terse replies to me.

That's all water under the bridge now, but still interesting history. After all, that "up to the chore" thread had quite a bit of diesel discussion in it.

 

Deja vu all over again; 12 years later.

I've driven small diesels on trips to EU, and should say wouldn't mind owning one. Thing is it would be hard to make a case with US diesel prices and with what MB, BMW, VW, GM, etc are charging for what supposed to be an economic car.

 

If they were meant to be economic cars, they would have the smaller diesel engine all those companies have in their stable.

M-B and BMW are high end only in the US, and are priced such no matter what the car actually is. Our 328d is just a 320d in Europe.

VW had a cornered market of those that wanted a diesel car, but couldn't afford a new Mercedes, or didn't want to deal with an aged classic one. For years they could pad their profits by offering diesels in a base trim equal to the gasoline versions mid-level one, with the price to match.

The Cruze is the only challenger to the VW diesels. Since it targets VW's customers, GM gave it the larger 2.0L, and equipped it to match. The diesel is as well equipped as the LTS gas model. Their smaller engine would cost less, and get better fuel economy, but the lower performance would likely lose sales. It might work on the new, lighter platform, but that wasn't likely before this.

 

It's higher per mile, but it's actually lower (in g/bhp-hr) when you compare how much work the engines in either vehicles are doing.

 

It is important to note that emission limits are always getting more demanding. Early on in the US, only cars had emission controls and pickup trucks were exempt. But this was a transient situation back then. It is a transient situation now. Both the EPA and CARB have plans to apply tough standards to bigger vehicles. Just because school buses and other trucks are much more polluting now makes for a faulty comparison. Until we (the entire human race) gives up on clean air for everyone, pollution from every and all vehicles should be considered a transient situation.


MERGED

While true, all pollution is not acceptable or inevitable. Those non-driving sources of pollution can be cleaned up just like any other source of pollution. The economics of pollution have always favored the corporation over the individual.

I agree with the seriousness of the deception, but still consider any and all pollution to be more damaging than most realize.

 

Even 'basic' girls are tired of their cheating VW Jettas

 

we got a nice gen IV prius for 'em. white porcelain fixtures, no extra charge.

 

zat iz funny!

 

That would be the 3.0 in the Tiguan and Porsche Cayanne.

 

The New York Times dubbed the 2009 Jetta "a high-mileage masterpiece." 2009 Green Car of the Year
The magic bullet that became an illusion

 

david copper field is jealous.

 

D'oh!

 

Not sure if its been on the thread yet. The WVU numbers . The worst is 1.5 g/miles of NOx doing rural hlls.

Average non-clean diesel school bus on the road is 10.5 grams according to epa tests (who knows if they cheat). The WVU found the highest levels of jetta is 1.5 g/mile on rural hills, approximately 0.6 g/mile on california highways. You need to compare apples to apples

This is not a health problem outside of europe. It is a fraud problem. VW engaged in fraud, as other automakers have. This fraud went on 6 years. They should be punished sevely for this. But we shouldn't pretend its a health problem. Old school buses, and grandfathered coal plants spew a lot more unhealthy emissions.

 

I cringe a little with this statement of "we shouldn't pretend its a health problem". Is that exactly what you wanted to state?

 

@austingreen I also do not understand what you meant by saying "we shouldn't pretend its a health problem" are you in the opinion that the allowable level is too strict and should be eased?

 

I don't really know the appropriate levels, but we know that there are many pre 2004 light vehicles on the road, and many busses and trucks that pollute much more. I am talking the US, where the only state where this may have hurt health a little bit is california as they have the most unhealthy air in the US, and bought a lot of these diessels. I think lev III may go to far, but these are violating lev II and that is bad, but probably not particularly unhealthy if its only 6 years of vw tdis.

Dieselgate: What If VW TDI Owners Don't Want Their Cars Fixed?

Even in california only has 68 thousand of these diesels versus 30 million registered vehicles, or 0.23%. Now if those other vehicles are also cheating it would be a much bigger problem, but its a tiny percentage. In texas prii get emission tested but pre 1996 diesels are allowed just to pollute a lot more than these 2L "clean" tdis that are cheating. California and texas probably got the most of these cars.

This is not like the gm switch that we know caused many dealths, likely the small percentage of vw diesels mean they didn't cause any health problems in the US. Europe may be anouther story but euro 4 was so much dirtier and many of those are still on the road.

The problem is the fraud and allowing it, not the health problems. Outside of california if owners want to keep their vw dirty cars, I don't see much point in making them turn them in.