VW Faces $17B Fine for Emissions Scam

Sounds worse than absolutely horrible. I'm sure they'll do fine.Any word on whether Europe has plans to clean up their act on pollution?

 

That is the really bad news for vw. They say their euro 6 cars don't cheat, but who knows if that is true. There are 11 million cars, mainly in europe with this detect software.

The bulk of the polluting diesels in Europe are not these VWs. There are a lot of euro 4 cars, trucks, and bus diesels that are allowed to pollute more than this.

 

"Our own Bozi Tatarevic provided his preliminary list of additions (retail prices) that would be needed for each car based on the systems included in the Passat TDI — which still didn’t pass:

• Cooler ($361)
• Aftertreatment Fuel Tank ($534)
• Dosing Valve ($240)
• DPFE ($105)
• Temperature Sensor ($171)
• EGR ($401)
• Catalyst ($688)
Total = $2,500"

Here’s What It Might Cost To Fix Each 2.0 TDI Volkswagen

 

The problem, Gen 1, exhaust system in Jetta/Golf:


The Gen 2, SCR version in the Passat:


The Gen 3, 2014 system, planned:


Source: Green Car Congress: Background on the 2.0L diesel engines at the core of the Volkswagen emissions testing debacle

Bob Wilson

 

The trend for Ram and the rest of the FCA group hasn't been good.

There still isn't a hybrid truck on the market that doesn't compromise hauling and towing compared to the plain ICE. A diesel can actually increase them while improving fuel economy. Which is why diesels in trucks and SUVs may not be hurt by VW's actions. I was interested in an early 2000 Jetta wagon in part because it had a manufacturer tow rating of a ton. Of course, VW may have lied about that, and they dropped it on later models. Which leaves Volvo and Subaru as the only 'cars that can tow' brands in the US.

PS: combining the DPF and SCR into one unit on the gen 3 emission system is kinda clever.
Some parts of the Green Cars Congress article seemed a little confused on how the NOx trap worked. NOx adsorber - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I imagine, with increasing CAFE targets, we could see lean burn gasoline ICEs come back using diesel based emission controls.

 

Interestingly this cheating news was broken over a year ago. Here's a good explanation for us knuckle draggers: How Engineers at West Virginia University Caught VW Cheating - IEEE Spectrum

 

It's not the gasoline is cleaner. Diesel engines run hotter than gasoline engines do and hence produce more NOx than gas engines. Higher cylinder pressure = higher temperature.

 

There is another approach to lower combustion temperature, a super-lean mixture. But this requires something more than a regular spark ignition.

The articles I remember reading showed the primary cylinder with special 'injection/igniter' cup. The mixture was too lean for ordinarily burn so a small pulse of fuel, ignited was jetted into the cylinder and this would initiate burning of the primary charge. But it was so lean the flame could not get 'that hot' as it was a super-lean mixture. The problem is there are narrow limits on the air-to-fuel ratio and if you get it wrong, no ignition, a wasted charge. Too much on the other side and you risk detonation. . . . Riding the tiger.

Bob Wilson

 

I can't believe VW pulled this trick. Did they think they could hide it forever?

Imagine the planning sessions where this cheating technique was discussed. How could they, in good conscience, or out of good long term business planning have even considered doing it, much less actually putting it into practice.

This will not only cost VW a lot of money but it will take years to regain the trust of consumers.

 

Yes, they compromised. A taller rear differential will reduce the fuel economy. It is part of the reason why the Prius v gets worse fuel economy than the Prius. While the hybrid SUVs we have gotten get some really good city ratings, their highway ones aren't much better than the ICE model. Putting in a differential ratio better for towing would reduce the difference further.

It's news now because the EPA has finished their investigation.

Not super lean, but Honda had some of the leanest mixtures in commercially available cars, 1:20 I think is what the VX and maybe the first Insight could attain. They controlled the air flow into the cylinder so that it swirled, competing the fuel charge near the spark plugs. They may have also been dual spark.

Which is why I think it may have been done short term on the non-SCR/gen1 emission models, but during the development of the gen2 there was some copying and pasting of engine control software that unknowingly brought the cheat code over.

 

If that were the case, would this not be as simple as changing the code on gen2?

 

super lean means lots of extra oxygen, which means the cat doesn't work right to reduce NOx. Now it won't take much urea, but you need to switch to a 2 way cat and an SCR.

You are thinking of stratified charge. This would work great for low power levels if .... EPA wouldn't keep making the NOx pollution level lower. EPA's lowering of the NOx limit is what had Honda get rid of lean brun in the original insight. Maybe is they stopped the pre 2000 car and the cheaters like vw, stratified charge would work. Then again they may figure out some engineering magic and have it work with the next epa regulations.

I don't think the problem with these VW 2 liter tdi is the low power levels where stratified charge works well on a direct injection gasoline engine but doesn't work well with the 3 way cat. HCCI does work for low pollution, but these engines are big for the power that they can produce. The problem here at VW is probably higher power levels, otherwise I don't think the detect would be as much of a pollution problem. On high power levels water injection is a cool techique. A water and alcohol blend is injected into the cylinder which both cools the cylinder and uses the heat to move the car (lower pollution and higher efficiency). I just googled and people put after market kits on vw tdi cars. The problem is this costs money, just like an SCR system, and you probably want to have both for a very clean diesel. That means that the diesel premium may be more than the hybrid/phev premium for midsize and smaller cars in countries that care about unhealthy pollution and not just carbon dioxide.

A different approach to low power levels is aggressive cooled egr, as is being done in the gen IV prius engine. The new engine can take 28% exhaust gasses allowing for a smaller charge without excess oxygen. Toyota increase spark plug energy from 35 mJ to 100 mJ to insure the explosion started and completed quick enough in the prescience of all that lower oxygen air.

 

Hardly a rave review for boaters.

Chevrolet Tahoe Hybrid | Boating Magazine

Pickup tow review
Chevrolet Silverado Hybrid | Boating Magazine

 

There's a growing rebellion trying to blow this away, saying this is way over the top to protect the greenies. Which is quite amusing in itself. These people are as thick as bricks. They are like saying, "Who cares about pollution? I do what I want and no one lectures me how much I can pollute. I mean, a little NOx is not going to kill you... Sorry for all the kids that I drove thru a school zone and polluted their little lungs. I promised, you would die that quickly, OK?..."

I have a mainland Chinese colleague (stress mainland Chinese vs. other Chinese, big difference) who would say anything to protect his favorite European diesels, said all this might be a conspiracy by America against VW. Seriously? I was going to ask him whether he thinks the tianman square was an American conspiracy against the Chinese government... Afterall, that's how he and his family got to Australia?!

Chuffed...

 

I bet there will be deals on reprogrammed VWs that are currently in dealer's lots. Fahrvergnügens for everyone!

 

Good thing we don't have the old 'Top Gear' stooges around. They would put on skit about what a good thing NOx are using nitrous oxide:

• power booster - nitrous kit to make a small car smoke tires using Stig vs Hammond
  
• laughing gas - making everyone happy demonstrated on May
  
• erection effects - (not real but when did facts and data get in their way?) Clarkson

Clarkson intones,"So you see, Volkswagen was just trying to empower other cars, make everyone happy, and loving."

Bob Wilson

 

Many get 10 or better, it depends on whether you're truck is overmatched or not. Diesels are so much better if the load is big. That was also in 2008 or so, and many things have changed. The price and tow limit basically eliminated it. I looked at them, and really wanted to believe.