Volt Job 1 scheduled for November 1!

This has already turned into a gm/volt bashing thread and you don't like it on your on the end of it.

The volt will turn on the ICE every 60 days if you stay within the 40 mile eve limit. It's a short cycle to keep the fuel line clear. The (phev) Prius will turn on the ICE EVERY time you drive it hit the throttle hard or go over 60 mph. So in the end which uses more fuel? I doubt that clearing and checking the fuel line will use that much fuel.
A person that has a 30 mile round trip every day with highway sections, which car for them will use the most fuel?

You know who else worked within the confines of consumer price? Honda specifically made its IMA system to be cheaper and almost fuel efficient as toyota's HSD. Why is Honda #3 in hybrid sales behind ford? When Ford Hybrids cost 5-10k more? Price is a factor, but obviously not the sole factor; price, "driveability", durability, and safety all come second to perception. If the perception is that car company x has safe cars then the masses will follow. Eventhough it may not be the truth.

If Gm can make the case that the Volt has value then people will buy it. The same way Toyota made a case for the prius. Sorry most people will not recoup the premium they paid for a Prius over a non hybrid model. But because toyota has attached a positive value to the prius it's a seller.

 

Oh the highlander hybrid that is less fuel efficient on the highway than the 4 cylinder model and is capable of towing what a 4 cylinder can?

Toyota should have mated the HSD to the 4 cylinder keep the towing capacity the same and get 30 mpg... but that would kill their Rav4 sales and RX sales and Toyota couldn't possibly do that...

 

Has any independent person ever driven one of these pre-production test Volt cars 40 miles to see if it will actually go that far on electric? Has any independent person ever driven a Volt past its EV range to find out what the FE will be in CS mode?

I predict that if they ever do actually sell these cars to the public, in real-world driving it will go 15 miles on electric and then get 25 mpg in CS mode, for an average FE of 50 mpg on a 30-mile drive, then decreasing to 25 mpg on a cross-country drive.

Prius gets 50 mpg.

Only on drives of under 30 miles will Volt out-perform Prius.

You'd be better off with a Zap Xebra (pure EV) for short trips and a Prius for long ones.

Of course people can still tout the imaginary numbers GM is throwing around (230 mpg my nice person!) until GM allows an independent test. If it does not scrap the whole project before it gets to the point of allowing an independent tester to lay hands on an actual car.

 

SURE! Get over it. Hitler too. Get over it ... skin heads would like that, right?. Oh, and 911 too. Get over it ... fossil fuel producers in the middle east would like that too.
Sorry malorn ... the reason we remember, is so that it will never happen again. YOU get over it.

.... as the pot calls the kettle black. The Leaf's INFRASTRUCTURE is already being built ... even before cars are put into production. So the 'viable soluton to anything over 100 miles' statement ?
(flap flap flap flap flap ... that's the sound of it flying out the window.) No, the leaf will not only have recharge capability while away from home, it has fast charge too. My wife likes the look of the Volt (if it ends up like the one we saw when we looked at the Tesla) more than the Leaf ... but why in the world would I need TWO cars with ICE, once the Leaf hits the market?

Lentz: That'd be like him giving out engineering facts to congress. Oh, that's right he DOES speak outside his field (marketing) of expertise. Since Toyota builds its product here and abroad, I can't wait to hear how you spin that Toyota is just a sales organization. Not just because Lentz said it I hope.

You're joking right? GM hasn't paid back SQUAT. GM strapped you & I with all of its abandoned toxic sites via bankruptcy:

http://www.hybridcars.com/environme...y-toxic-dumps-and-mercury-disposal-26044.html

Your kids, and their kid's kid's will be paying for GM's cleanup for a long long long time through their fed taxes. That's right, GM ... the folks with all the U.S. flag waving "look how green our land barges are" commercials. On the other hand, the brand new Toyota plant getting ready to ramp up here in the U.S. was built with all the environmental protocols you can shake a stick at. No, GM's loan payments won't even be a fraction of what they should pay back.

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First, it's not a guaranteed 40 miles. It's reduced in the winter.

Second, even with a full battery-pack, if the temperature is below freezing and the car isn't plugged in, startup will require running of the engine.
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Again, not the whole story. Overall MPG is clearly better. So is traction, which is nice to have when towing.

The hybrid delivers 27/25 with AWD.

The 4-cylinders delivers only 22/27 with just 2WD.

Also, we know for a fact that they will be offering a 4-cylinder SUV hybrid, a Rav4.
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In early December, Lutz took one for a spin. He obviously wasn't timid and had the heater running. Range was reduced to 28 miles.

Also in early December, the webmaster of the big Volt blog got to take one out for a CS-mode drive. His observations were MPG between 36 and 38.
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Of course it's not a guaranteed 40 miles neither will be this 12 mile ev range of the PHEV prius or even the 50 mpg of the prius (which consumer reports gets 44 mpg in the real world) YMMV for every car so get over it. The leaf will suffer ev mile reduction as well as current tesla roadster owners. It's nothing that the Volt will only suffer, so stop pretending like it is.

There is a good amount of time to tune the generator to perform better under load with better software algorithms. The last article I read on cs mode was they got the engine up 45mpg versus the earlier 38 mpg. Sure the enigne turns on if left on plugged on a cold night (again if you are charging it at night it will not turn on), the PHEV prius engine will turn on everyday.

How long is that rav4 hybrid going to take? Years? What i was saying about the HYH is that if they mated the hsd to the 4 cylinder it could easily get 30 mpg beating out any other 7 passenger suv and many 5 passenger. HYH wouldn't be loosing much perfomance and gaining a good mpg. Its obvious toyota won't do that, and the upcoming rav4 hybrid is a factor in that. If GM did that everyone would be up in arms and throwing an infantile fit!

 

Where are these sites that are being built specifically for the Leaf? Please give me a location, take some pictures of the construction site. All there is now is agreements. So if the agreements fall/don't come to fruition, where would that leave the Leaf? in a very compromised position(flap flap flap, there goes your dream of ever taking a leaf on a road trip out the window ). there has been no charging station that has result from any deals Nissan has struck with any townships Yet. They are coming, but if things go south in a municipality, that charging station would be in jeopardy. I think the Leaf is great, but it won't fit my needs without a charging station for my trips.

I said specifically that if you are in an area without a charging station, the volt will be a viable solution to anyone that needs more than 100 miles while still being able to use ev for a porton of that trip.

 

Lots of attempts to divert attention away from the topic...

Back on topic, why no mention of what some will deal with every work day?

My employer doesn't offer a place to plug in. Most in the north won't. Even if without taking the (setup or usage) expense into account, there simply isn't a location available that won't be affected by snow plowing. That means the engine will run for warm-up each day after work from Nov to April.
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That could possibly be achieved if they compromise power & emissions. Will they?
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the topic is volt production so if you want to get back to topic go back to that.

Like I have said and will say the volt is not for everyone. YMMV and it would be up to each individual person to decide what is best for them. it is truly insane to vilify on product when, the same short comings are present in other competing products. What about on your way to work? will the volt's ICE turn on? will the PHEV prius? do you go over 60 mph or accelerate hard? is it more than 12 miles?

 

When it is misrepresented, why shouldn't there be a response?

As for competition, Volt isn't. Price is simply too high. Even Lutz himself said it should be "nicely under $30,000".
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no troubles with the rant mate, you're a gm guy, i respect that. i also am concerned with the present/future. but i took a chance on a $15,000. camry and 5 toyota's later, it's all good. we can only go by our personal experiences. i would love a volt, but i'm not handing gm $40,000. or whatever without bumper to bumper coverage. otherwise, i'll wait and see and if they have success, i'll jump on the bandwagon. peace!

 

The Volt is not going to be for everyone. But for those who can plug in daily its going to be great. Some of us can plug in at BOTH ends of a commute and will have great results. You can't plug in enough to make it work for you? Don't buy it, get a Prius!

The idea of turning on the engine to warm the batteries is a good idea not a bad idea. The power from the ICE runs the car (through the electrics of course) and the WASTE HEAT from the ICE warms the batteries. That sounds pretty good to me. There are plenty of locations in the USA where battery warming will not be needed often.

 

We have no Idea what a PHEV prius will cost, which looks to be around 30k as well (I don't think toyota would want the PHEV prius to cut into the sales of the regular prius with the tax rebate). Should the Volt be cheaper yes. Does it need to be cheaper to sell, not necessarily but it would help (again I will use the Ford vs honda hybrids with a 5-10k difference). If People see value in the volt it will sell.

would I buy a volt? probably not, but I am not in its niche. My parents would use the volt to it's full potential. 99% of their trips are way under 40 miles and they occasionally go to my sister's house that is 75 miles away. The Leaf would fit them as well, but they do take trips longer that 100 miles every few months.

The car that fits me the best is a tesla model s (with the 300 mile pack). With a monthly trip to MA and sometimes elsewhere, the range of the leaf is not enough and the volt is close enough in price that I could get a much larger car. i want to slim the number of cars down and the tesla would do that (no need for the prius like I would with the Leaf)

 

Lol i am not a Gm man not in the slightest, but I won't discount a product because of a name attached to it. I think the concept of the volt is very good and could fit many peoples needs.