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Vision Zero and road safety

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by Leadfoot J. McCoalroller, Jan 12, 2024.

  1. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    In Texas you can’t get a registration tag without insurance. So fly by night insurance brokers sell one month for $30.
     
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  2. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    A few places have moved to unarmed agents without arrest powers for traffic enforcement. It's a pre-descalation of what traffic stops with a cop could be. Wonder how those jurisdictions are doing these days.
     
  3. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    The last time I was in a traffic accident of any kind, I was rear-ended on I-95 in Connecticut. Unlicensed/uninsured driver in a beat up Prius with temporary Texas (paper) plates that were made-up, printed from a PDF that circulates the web.

    Fortunately I was in a rented van with a loss damage waiver.

    I keep my eye out for paper Texas tags now.

    Hardly seen any this week while I'm actualy in Texas.
     
  4. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    Got to be careful in Texas. I know a guy who was dui and killed a motorcyclist. Three years free before a trial, five years in the pokey and he is out without probation or monitoring. But the governor wants the National Guard to shoot people near the border on sight. Priorities.
     
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  5. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    SO....
    I read the government-funded article and was pleasantly surprised by the fact that they don't use paywalls.
    I thought it was rather nice of them.

    A few quick observations:

    1. LEOs HATE doing traffic!
    Nobody thinks that they deserve to get cited. It's unglamorous, often dangerous, and there's a growing bias against LEOs in cities these days. America has a history with police that's just a little bit different than one might imagine.
    This is because cops, very much like enlisted soldiers, were 'rough men' doing a job that most educated, upright cits didn't want anything to do with. This is WHY back in the 19th and early 20th centuries 'unfashionable' immigrants (Irish, Germans) were over-represented in american law enforcement.
    Even minorities - in case anyone thinks the Bass Reeves show is another example of Hollywood rewriting history.

    Fewer cops. More property crime. Less time to sit behind a billboard waiting for somebody doing 100 in a 55.

    2. Vision Zero has some good points but it's another example where people who've never been to the EU think that we should have programmes like they have in the EU.
    Americans don't even think that there should be red light cameras and DUI checkpoints!!
    They have different 'privacy' standards in the EU, and one might be surprised to learn that they in fact DO have photo enforcement for speed, stopping when the little light goes red, and a lot MORE people in the EU have insurance because they DO have sobriety check points and if you get caught driving without insurance, or are intoxicated while driving you probably will not be driving for a while and might have to sell your car to pay some very hefty fines and fees.

    I personally am VERY PRO red-light camera and VERY VERY PRO DUI checkpoint - especially since they also check for people driving without insurance.

    One of the better selling points for allowing illegal aliens to get driving licenses is the fact that they can then get insurance.
     
  6. BiomedO1

    BiomedO1 Senior Member

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    It's the same here in my state, but if you've already got "flexible" morals; you simply never register the car you've just purchased in your own name. I feel really sorry for the person whom sold the car, if they didn't file the release of liability and change of ownership paperwork with DMV. I've actually refused to sell my car to an individual once; who wouldn't provide me a state/federal ID card - so I could file the proper DMV paperwork. I've know many friends that spent years trying to clear their driving record and get a bunch of mistermeaner charges dropped because of this. Running red light camera and toll booth bills kept showing up in his mail for years. Followed by collections agencies and declining credit score.

    We seem to be de-evovling into a 3nd world country, where traffic infractions are more of a suggestion than a law. The countries I'm speaking of, If you can afford to own and maintain a car, your probably in the country's top 10%; the elite - which explains why local cops don't mess with them.

    When I was in China, a decade ago, our driver went straight - but he was in a turn lane. We got a few blocks before a foot officer, standing in the middle of a 8 lane roadway waved him over. Scanned his ID, taxi permit, VIN, asked him a few questions then the little grocery receipt printer on the officer's belt began buzzing. Ticket was issued and we were on our way in less than 5 minutes. Again, that was a decade ago....
     
    #26 BiomedO1, Jan 13, 2024
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2024
  7. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    While the rest of us love every aspect of our own jobs? They can turn in their badges if they can't hack it.

    We don't need to do it exactly the same way. Heck we don't even need to spell 'programs' their way. But I'm fully on board with adopting the same safety principles.

    Maybe a bit beyond the scope of discussion, but I think there are a lot of ways in which the first world was never that far ahead of the third, just illusions.
     
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  8. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    mrs b was 3rd in line at the ups store this morning. the guy behind her started asking the clerk questions while she was helping the first person in line. she is working all alone.
    he doesn't have a label and she tells him he can use the computer to print one for $2.50, or she can do it for $5.00.
    he starts getting hot under the collar about why should he have topay to print a label.
    after awhile, the guy in front of mrs b turns to him and tells him to wait until it's his turn, she's trying to help a customer.
    then they start jawing at each other with mrs b in between. the language was getting rough, and she thought they were going to come to blows.
    the guy behind her has a little boy who is watching everything and learning how to behave from his father.
    i think patience has become a rare commodity during covid.
     
  9. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Friend in NJ let his insurance lapse and got caught. His punishment was harsher than those with DUI charges in court that day.
     
  10. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    Many do.
    The new 'school resources ossifer' in the school where my daughter teaches is an early retiree from a nearby city.
    Those kids love on him and treat him like a big old 6'5" teddy bear!
    He's living his best life now.
    LEO's hating to pull traffic duty isn't the only factor.
    There is MUCH more property crime now - requiring paperwork.
    LEOs also have to do school zones, and interstates are generally patrolled by state cops.
    There are millions more cars on the roads than there were just a few years ago.
    More cars, more accidents, which means that they have less time to run radar.
    Cars also don't bounce off of each other like they used to.
    I've actually seen, IN THIS FORUM, people complaining about running over small animals resulting in an accident report.

    Those reports are handled by LEOs who then are not doing traffic enforcement.

    Same.
    We actually are doing a lot of things like protected bike lanes, re-imagining intersections, installing rotaries and roundabouts, etc.

    I was trying to explain the real-world reasons that radar traffic enforcement is way down.

    It doesn't help much that in the time that I've been posting here, we're in a Gilded Age of passenger car performance!
    Even Priuses have gone from 0-60 times "that same day" to 6.4 seconds, and they now can knock down a 1/4-mile in under 15 seconds.

    That's not slow.
    Perspective:
    1970's Car 0-60 Specs | Find 0 to 60 & Quarter Mile Times for 1970’s Cars!
     
  11. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    Where?


    Are they somehow working on unreported property crimes?

    I'm not happy about the horsepower arms race either. In a prior post I mentioned better cruise controls- that might not even be the right term. Probably a better way to express it would be a virtual granny gear- so you can floor it and do 0-15 in 8 seconds.

    Finer controls to better honor 15-30mph limits. Stomping the wrong pedal by accident would result in a less sudden acceleration.
     
  12. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    For the first time in decades, the property crime rate in the U.S. rose year over year. According to the FBI's latest crime statistics (which reflect crime incidents reported in 2022), property crime offenses were up 7.1% in 2022 compared to the previous year. But it's not all bad news—a more extended view shows a substantial 24.9% decrease over a decade.
    (spoiler alert - 2023 property crime rates are up over 22)

    Decreases in speeding enforcement isn't a decade-long problem.
    It's mostly a post 2021 thing.
    The ACAB effect is a lagging indicator because it takes time for cops to migrate out of some of the more hostile places.

    There's another process underway as economic and other things are causing some small towns to shutter their police forces, seen as a not-entirely-bad thing by government funded media:
    Small American towns seeing some success with disbanding police forces | PBS NewsHour.

    Towns with police department do not turn into Mad Maxx dystopian hellscapes, but rather those calls get answered by county and state LEOS.
    This means that fewer ossifers are driving more miles between more calls.

    Talk to the OEMs about that - the same ones who are advertising sub 5 second acceleration times.
    As I recall this is one of the better selling points for BEVs.

    Well.....unless you have a rental car company.
     
  13. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    The data does appear to support this statement a lot better than your previous take of "MUCH more..."

    --

    Pennsylvania is the one and only state in the union where police are not allowed to use radar/lidar guns for speed enforcement. So when I moved there c.2008 it seemed to be a pretty dramatic difference.

    (State police are exclusively allowed to use radar guns for speed enforcement, but they stick to the major highways, of which there are quite few in my county. It's easy for me to go 6 months without seeing a state trooper.)

    There are plenty of old stories (and jokes) about people changing cars because "they got too many tickets in that other one."

    They had to start from a kernel of truth. With more, and more appropriate speed enforcement (of all kinds) there will be more demand for fine-grained speed control. All that demand expressed as "everybody's money" talks a lot louder than me.
     
  14. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    ...stop signs always seemed to be optional in Mass, is my recollection

    Wash DC has lots of camera enforcement, and they go for jugular on fines $400+. I think the idea is to nail VA and MD drivers. I hate to drive there cause I get flustered and just want to get out of there fast.
     
    #34 wjtracy, Jan 13, 2024
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2024
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  15. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    All road rules are optional here, not sure why they even give you a test
     
  16. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

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    I see (not in a rush) cops roll stops, miss signals.
     
  17. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    That's another thing that's VASTLY different here than in other nations.

    Most nations require you to pass a written and practical exam.
    In the US all you need is the right number of candles on your birthday cake.
     
  18. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    NY1 news story on the effectiveness of 'daylighting,' aka removing parking spaces that are close to intersections.
     
  19. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    CBS News story about the city of Sacramento removing enforcement cameras due to declining revenue.

    ...yet they also credit the system with a 90% reduction in accidents.
     
  20. mikefocke

    mikefocke Prius v Three 2012, Avalon 2011

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    I moved 250 miles south from VA to NC and had to pass a vision and written (automated by computer) test to get my NC license. No driver's test. Too labor intensive I'd bet as the reason. I had been driving for 47 years at the time so not much point.